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Yes there is.
And it's being delivered to your house by the guitarist who has never played a clam.
Wait for the knock . . .
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01-04-2025 03:31 PM
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Yes the one you really don’t like ….
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I side with those who say that an amp that never breaks down is an impossibility. A few brands have been mentioned in the posts, most in a positive context.
I've always leaned towards solid-state amps. When I joined this Forum, there was a fresh review of jazz amps, and the Roland Cube 60 stood out as a great-sounding and inexpensive alternative. I was a happy user until my Toob folly reached the point of no return. The Cube had a reputation of being built like a tank, and I just read that over 3 million of them (of some 20 different models) have been made. I've had two 60s, one of which is still in common use in a shared training locale, and a 40, which served my former accordionist-bandmate for about a decade, until he was struck by a very bad case of long Covid four years ago. Never heard of a Cube that has died. Of course, they all will in the end, but their life expectancy is pretty high.
EDIT: That amp review by Dirk is still there. Much of the amp-specific info is obsolete by now. An update might be in place, focusing on what's available today.Last edited by Gitterbug; 01-05-2025 at 03:43 PM.
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When an amp breaks it's usually a cheap component that needs to be replaced but the diagnosis and service is usually expensive or unavailable. That's true with most things. The problem is in the manufacturing model. I wish they manufactured products in a modular way. When a combo amp breaks down, you still have a perfectly serviceable cabinet, speaker, as well as some of the more expensive electronic parts. For example if you bought a tonemaster amp, you should be able to swap out the DSP unit, preamp and power amp individually just like changing the speakers.
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o.k., but when did the "modern" era begin?
Originally Posted by vintagelove
I'm beginning to think that Christian has taken a New Year's resolution to not write more than one sentence per post.... not a bad idea actually, maybe I should try it. I'm sure many forum members are no doubt thinking, "Yes, please do!!" Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Older amps were made from standard parts found in manufacturers' catalogues. Modern amps are made with bespoke circuit boards and inexplicable pieces of white plastic. The old stuff had been tried and tested in thousands of applications over many years. The new stuff is unproven.
Besides, the older amps that failed have been forgotten. Those that survived are cherished.
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I don’t do New Year’s resolutions. Originally Posted by Mick-7
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It's good to get away from forums and live real life some times but it's nice to have guys around to talk guitar with even if we argue about stuff occasionally, lol. Originally Posted by Mick-7
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The Yamaha G50 picture posted was a pre Rivera series 1. The 12 shown gives the basic layout but the 2 10 gives you tremelo and a switchable master volume. The G100s are the same, just more power. All pretty bullet proof, great stock speakers if not worn out. Riveras have the parametric mid range which can be fun, that pot is hard to find so test.
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I played an all original 1965 Fender Bassman head today. A friend bought it, it was in the local ads.. should have bought it! One of the best amps i've ever played, and i've played a lot of old Fenders. Came back from a gig and still thinking about this amp!
It was all original except from a 3 prong power cable, and played like a dream, no hum, no noise, crackles, perfect sweet, old Fender sound. The guy selling it was a guitarist, kind of a collector, he knew his stuff.
The only good thing gear wise about Greece is there are a lot of old Fender amps and Gibson 335s, because bouzouki and traditional horn players used to play through the amps, guitarists used 335s, all the way back to the 60s-70s. But a lot have had all kinds of crazy modifications going after volume and headroom. And these days people only want the small Fender amps for some mysterious reason..
We had another old Fender, a small 1964 Fender Champ that was great also, couldn't believe that this little thing sounded that good, and a new handwired 1964 Custom Deluxe reverb that sounded like a toy compared to the old Bassman. But i really don't grasp how the Champ can be the most expensive of them all, and the Bassman the cheapest..
Last edited by Alter; 01-06-2025 at 01:05 AM.
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This will be wordy and nerdy, but let's hope it helps some of you using tube amps.
Playing jazz is light duty compared to some of the other styles that require very loud or distorted tones. Over driving a tube amp regularly means you will need to replace the power tubes every year or two. If you don't over drive the amp the power tubes will be fine for an indefinite many years - I have six Fender tube amps in concert rotation and none of them have needed power tube replacement (except the 60 year old Super Reverb - new tubes and filter caps after I first got it). Preamp tubes are another thing altogether; their quality of manufacture varies wildly and all you can do is have tested spares... you eventually acquire a collection of good preamp tubes.
The audio electronics demand for high quality capacitors fell off dramatically world wide in the early 80s when digital electronics became everything (digital does not care about quality of capacitors, only that they function, unlike analog discreet circuits where caps are critical to sound quality). Manufacturers changed accordingly and high quality reliable audio caps became rare and expensive.
Here are some things that will help tube amps:
Switch it on last
Sometimes people finding power for their gear on stage rearrange things, add power strips, etc., and may end up pulling your amp's plug out. If your amp uses a rectifier tube, it may be destroyed when they immediately plug it back in if your amp was already powered up. A hot rectifier tube is not designed to be powered off and immediately back on. Wait until everyone else on stage has sorted out their power connections before switching on your amp.
Use Stand By properly
Power on sequence is:
Both switches down/off
Switch Power up/on
Spend a minute turning all knobs full rotation both ways a few times
(in the long run this will help keep them from getting noisy)
Turn all knobs to minimum
Switch Stand By up/on
Power off sequence is:
Switch Power down/off
Leave Stand By up/on
(still plugged in, this maintains ground for discharging of filter caps)
Don't rush moving the amp after power off. Hot amps don't like bumps, knocks, dollies navigating steps, stairs, curbs, etc...
Check the speaker plug
The old ones were all metal - look like a tiny frying pan with the plug sticking out in the middle. Those are fool proof because the plug's electrical contact is perfectly registered (the insertion length matches the internal contact geometry inside the jack) when the plug is fully inserted.
The later version replaced the back metal cover with a plastic lid. The rigid metal on the other side was retained to insure contact registration, but the plastic back was a point of fail because the way you insert the plug is by pressing on the back. The metal back protected the soldering underneath, the plastic back flexes and endangers the solder connections. Tube amps will tolerate a short circuit of the speaker output fine, but must never see an open circuit (Solid state amps are the opposite of that, tolerate open circuit but must not be shorted).
The latest version is dangerous to tube amps. The whole thing is molded plastic so there is no insurance of connection registration tolerance. These are made to meet a specification by manufacturers who may not know how they will be utilized. The end of the molding from which the plug extends is trimmed with little or no regard for precisely how much plug length will subsequently be in the jack when fully seated. Their failure to maintain speaker connection is enough to avoid them altogether and replace.
Reverb connections
If you ever disconnect the reverb tank, remember that the convention for reverb connection used by Fender is not like other audio. The amp's and tank's reverb connection pairs are each labeled "Input" and "Output". The rest of the world would interpret that as meaning the output connection on the amp would go to the input connection on the tank, then the output of the tank would go to the input connection on the amp... but Fender's convention is connect "Output to output, and input to input", this being simpler for the assembly floor process.
It won't hurt if you do it the wrong way, but unless you know the Fender convention you will never likely entertain the idea of doing it "wrong" and discovering that is their right way.
Last edited by pauln; 01-05-2025 at 06:57 PM.
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I'm guessing that this same problem affects SS amps that require repair too (like my NAD that's developed a louder-than-I'd like hum that I understand comes from the PSU). Another side-effect of the digital evolution is that reliable traditional reparation has become rare and expensive; today's in-genious engineers are trained to search boards that are likely to contain a/the detective component, and swap them. I just had a discussion with a repair tech, who confirmed that yes, a blown zen diode could explain my issue but no, we don't do that kind of repair (which in this case would have been check the diode and remove it if blown). Originally Posted by pauln
The turning back and forth is a great idea but setting the volume to minimum (and muting the speakers if possible) is something I've been doing with my regular amps for decades. Can't remember who taught me to do it, quite possibly an uncle who was a product developer at Philips' Krefeld plant (and who certainly worked on tube-based TVs).Power on sequence is:
Both switches down/off
Switch Stand By up/on
Spend a minute turning all knobs full rotation both ways a few times
(in the long run this will help keep them from getting noisy)
Turn all knobs to minimum
Switch Power up/on
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Do you have any sources for these instructions? I had not seen your preferred shutdown sequence before. Other authorities give different advice. According to this thread on Guitars Canada, the Traynor manual says the user should turn off the power with standby off, while the Fuchs manual says use standby for a few minutes before turning off the power, to let the amp cool in stages. Berkshire Guitar Amplifier Repairs says, "When you have finished playing, you do not need to turn the amp to standby before switching off—just turn the amp off as normal." Originally Posted by pauln
Should we ignore the standby switch? The Valve Wizard says, "the standby switch is more likely to shorten the life of the valves". Sweetwater says, "The standby switch was only necessary when Leo Fender was designing less expensive amplifiers". Ultimate Guitar also questions their value. Reportedly, Peavey says standby is not really good for anything but produces cathode poisoning when an amp is in standby for too long.
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I mean the Tonemaster Twin has a standby switch. OTOH my tube Princeton doesn’t…
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Fender on the matter:
Tube Prelude: Warm Up to the Standby Switch
Marshall has the same views on numerous amps users handbooks:
Turning the amp on: Power up on standby, wait, standby off. Turning the amp off: Put amp on standby, turn power off (so opposite order).
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Stand By is for letting the heaters have a moment to get the cathode to emission temperature before any signal might be applied to the grid. The spec is 10-15 seconds but nothing bad happens if you don't get out of Stand By right away.
However, long periods of Stand By (many hours) may strip the cathode.
The biggest misconception is that Stand By is supposed to be for taking a break between sets, etc. Just leave it alone and turn the volume down to minimum.
The filter caps are designed to bleed off life threatening charge after the power is switched off. Power off with the Stand By on for a few minutes allows a path to ground for the caps... just a precaution... the bleeder conductor rarely fails.
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Nobody's mentioned speakers yet, but long term, the cones can dry rot.
Before I had a career as an electrical engineer, I started as an electronics tech, servicing stereos, professional audio.
Other things that break or wear out are input jacks, push switches (especially power). Pots get noisy from corrosion, of course. Big electrolytic capacitors can go bad, in power supplies and output stages. Other than that, it's mostly driving them too hard (loud!) that burns things out. Tubes are another matter, they get noisy/leaky.
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Fender says, "Just like old radios, TV sets and the room-sized ENIAC computer of 1946 (which used 17,468 vacuum tubes), tube guitar amps need a minute to warm up after you turn them on." But old radios and TV sets do not have standby switches; nor do many Fender amps. Originally Posted by Alter
The Hiwatt Custom Shop Universal Owners Manual says,
Always have the master volume turned fully anticlockwise when turning the Amplifier On/Off. Adjust slowly clockwise after tubes warm up.
TO TURN THE AMPLIFIER ON, leave the Standby switch in the up (Off) position and switch the Mains switch to the down (On) position. The amp is now on in the “Standby” mode. The Mains lamp will light up to let you know the amp is on. Wait a minimum of 60 seconds to let the valves warm up to operating condition, then switch the Standby to the down (Off) position. This will ensure longer valve life.
Hiwatt does not advise how to turn off their amps. I put mine on standby first, just in case.
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+1 on Peavey Bandit, that thing will outlive you.
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Roland Cube Series.
You can't kill a cube.
I know it's not a nice looking amp, but the sound possibilities of the tone control are enormous,
hardly any other guitar amp lets the guitar adapt so well to the amp.
If the Cube 80 had a nicer cabinet and layout, let's say similar to a Standel amp, I think it would have more fans.Last edited by Two5one; 01-08-2025 at 11:01 AM.
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IMO the primary reason for having a standby switch is to keep the tubes warm but switch off the speaker(s), to prevent howling feedback when leaving the amp alone for awhile, such as taking a break.
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Well, the universe never seems to pass up a chance to poke a finger at the pompous and self-righteous. I make my statement that tube amps really aren't all that fragile, etc., only to find this morning to find my 5E3 to be nonfunctional with a loud hum occurring even with the volume knobs off. When plugged in, I get a weird distorted vocoder type sound barely audible over the buzz of the amp. Sheesh. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Rob Robinette's site, which includes an essay on how the 5E3 works that might have been useful to you, is down. I am devising a conspiracy theory. Originally Posted by Cunamara
Well, the universe never seems to pass up a chance to poke a finger at the pompous and self-righteous. I make my statement that tube amps really aren't all that fragile, etc., only to find this morning to find my 5E3 to be nonfunctional with a loud hum occurring even with the volume knobs off. When plugged in, I get a weird distorted vocoder type sound barely audible over the buzz of the amp. Sheesh.
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I can't help saying that many of the previous messages - techy, wordy, nerdy, Murphy - will definitely keep me on the solid state side of the fence.
Last edited by Gitterbug; 01-06-2025 at 04:51 PM.
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Originally Posted by Litterick
this helped me understand the functional reason behind a standby switch and why some amps don’t need them. All come down to rectifier method and the component ratings after the rectification stage. To me it sounded quite logical.
In the video It touches on what to do for short breaks vs long breaks.
ultimately it came down to voltage ratings of filter caps and the cost of caps rated for the maximum potential exposed voltages before power tube filaments heat up enough to conduct and stabilise the power supply.
I was actually looking for a different video where a tech had an oscilloscope on the standby switch and measuring inrush currents and voltage spikes. In that video he demonstrated the different responses with diode vs valve rectified supplies. He also demonstrated how some (cheap component) standby switch integrations on diode rectified supplies can actually double the chance of a failure through their switching function and the arcing generated inside the switch.
In both outcomes (switch vs no switch, diode vs valve rectifier) it kinda sucks that the consumer is depending on the amp manufacturer to actually give enough of a damn to prolong the life of these Power supply Components and to disclose how they designed the system.
cheers
M
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