What PA Speaker/Sound System for Senior Centers

[shekie]

I'm part of a four piece band that does volunteer performances at senior living facilities a couple of times a month. We typically play for 30-50 residents in large rooms, roughly 25' x 25', high ceilings, usually with at least partially carpeted floors. The band consists of four vocalists, one acoustic guitar w/pickup, one hollow body guitar (mine) and an electric bass. The bass player will bring his bass amp so I'm looking for something to support the vocals, and the acoustic and hollow body guitars.

I already own a Yamaha MG10XU, a 10 channel mixer with various effects that has four mic inputs, and inputs for both the acoustic and hollow body guitars. What's missing is a PA speaker(s) to complete the sound system. A typical setlist of our music would include songs like Summertime, Fly Me To The Moon, Route 66, Don't Get Around Much Anymore, Blue Skies, Ain't Misbehavin', Girl From Ipanema, God Bless The Child, Georgia On My Mind, It Ain't Necessarily So etc. So we tend to lean into jazz ballads and 40's to early 60's crooner type stuff.

Any suggestions for a PA speaker that would complement our instruments and the style of music we perform? Budget is somewhat flexible, size and especially weight is of more concern. Thoughts about something like the QSC CP8 speaker? Alternatives?

[Cunamara]

The QSCs are great sounding IME, but priced at the upper end of their niche. I sometimes use one at a rehearsal space as a guitar amp, running a reverb pedal and DI box into it. Very nice. At home I have an Alto Ts110a which I use in the same way and have gigged with it with good results. A friend of mine uses a TS112a as a bass amp with a DI, also acoustic guitar. I have not used the Alto as a PA as such. My old quintet had a PA with the QSCs and they sounded very good with the horns in particular.

I worked in nursing homes for 33 years and have always marveled at the transformative power of music to bring joy and happy memories, as well as promoting much-needed cognitive stimulation. I'm glad you're doing this. You'll want a PA with good clear upper mids and highs to compensate for the high incidence of upper frequency hearing loss, so that the audience can distinguish the lyrics well.

[kamlapati]

Seems like any modern powered PA speaker should plug in to your mixer and work fine.

But for a 20" by 25" room? I've played full coffee shops that size with my guitar amp only, and just projected my voice as best I could. People appreciated that it wasn't a full on battle of volumes. For small rooms, less is more. And the audience you describe is probably sitting and listening. How little can you get away with?

[shekie]

The QSCs are great sounding IME, but priced at the upper end of their niche. I sometimes use one at a rehearsal space as a guitar amp, running a reverb pedal and DI box into it. Very nice. At home I have an Alto Ts110a which I use in the same way and have gigged with it with good results. A friend of mine uses a TS112a as a bass amp with a DI, also acoustic guitar. I have not used the Alto as a PA as such. My old quintet had a PA with the QSCs and they sounded very good with the horns in particular.

I worked in nursing homes for 33 years and have always marveled at the transformative power of music to bring joy and happy memories, as well as promoting much-needed cognitive stimulation. I'm glad you're doing this. You'll want a PA with good clear upper mids and highs to compensate for the high incidence of upper frequency hearing loss, so that the audience can distinguish the lyrics well.

Thank you, we do enjoy doing this. Funny you should mention hearing loss, we are very careful with our volume, especially under the watchful eyes of the activities directors. Invariably the residents ask us to turn the sound...............UP.

[shekie]

Seems like any modern powered PA speaker should plug in to your mixer and work fine.

But for a 20" by 25" room? I've played full coffee shops that size with my guitar amp only, and just projected my voice as best I could. People appreciated that it wasn't a full on battle of volumes. For small rooms, less is more. And the audience you describe is probably sitting and listening. How little can you get away with?

Surprisingly (or maybe not so surprisingly), every time we sound check ourselves to keep the sound down, we end up being asked by the residents to turn it up. I think a PA speaker to get the vocals up over the instruments so the residents can hear the lyrics and sing along (we usually bring printouts of the lyrics) is needed for this application.

[Cunamara]

Exactly. They might be elderly, they might have dementia or have had a stroke or something, but they still remember every lyric of the songs from when they were young. Such a gift to bring that joy back to them, so many of the elders I knew met their spouses at dances and the music takes them back to that time. I used to stand in the corner and watch the response, it was so uplifting to see.

[rpjazzguitar]

I have the same mixer. My guess is that almost any decent powered speaker will work well. A few thoughts:

1. In a new, volume-sensitive gig (and aren't they all?) I like to be asked to turn up. I think it tends to calm the customer down, since they're usually afraid we'll be too loud. I also give the owner/manager hand signals to let us know if we're too loud or soft.

2. One of the best gigs I ever heard was a small venue. Guitar and bass and both sang. They ran four lines into a small mixer and then into what looked like a medium size guitar amp, smaller than a Deluxe, bigger than a Princeton. I don't recall the brand. It was all they needed and they sounded incredible. Later, they mentioned they had a bigger gig that evening and had their PA system in their van. They were experienced enough to know to leave it there. They played a little of everything, including bop -- and the guitarist did it on a flattop.

3. I have personal experience with a few models of powered speaker. Bose S1 sounds good (and is quite loud for its size) and might be my first choice for your application, bearing in mind that I don't have any experience with most of what's on the market.

I found the Everse 8 to be cold sounding despite a terrific feature set.

I use an original Mackie SRM 350. It's bigger and heavier than the Bose S1 and also sounds great. It might be a better choice than the S1 if you also might need it for much louder gigs.

I've also used the Yamaha Stagepas 300. It could be a very good choice. They're a good buy used, typically. You can use one speaker, with it's attached mixer as a guitar amp. Or two speakers on poles as a PA. Surprisingly loud and sound very good.

4. My experience with line array systems has been uniformly very positive. More money and more weight, but really great sound.

[Soccerpoodle]

I use the same Yamaha mixer with QSC CP 12s. The clarity of the CP12s are amazing for the price. I also use a CP8 as a floor monitor. Small gigs I take just one CP12 and dont use the monitor.

I cant recommend the QSC speakers enough.

[AllanAllen]

I have a single QSC K.10. It’s crisp, with plenty of headroom and leaves me wanting for nothing. But….

If I had to do it again I would go with the battery powered Bose S1. It’s lighter, cheaper, and good enough for the small rooms I play now(similar in size to yours).

[dconeill]

sometimes raising the speakers on stands above the heads of the audience helps with sound dispersion and helps the audience hear whats going on

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I agree with rpjazzguitar - any decent powered speaker will work fine, as long as it has a bit more than enough power to fill the biggest, most demanding venue you'll ever try to play with it. Alto makes a full line of excellent powered speakers at very reasonable prices, and they all sound great. The TX312 is a 700W powered 2 way cab with a 2" tweeter and 12" woofer for $210. The TX310 is a 10" 350W unit for $150 & the 308 is $119. The main limitation is that they all have only one input. But you have a mixer so that doesn't matter.

Except in very small rooms, I prefer using 2 speakers for PA and sound reinforcement. You only increase the overall SPL by 3 dB by adding a second speaker at the exact same ouput level, so two aren't aggressively louder than 1. But you get wider dispersion, and the sound stage is bigger because of the reflections and diffraction of sound from two sources spread apart. This gives you better sound coverage at lower volumes levels throughout the room, with much less beaming. I find that it's preferred by audiences. So I'd go for a pair of TX310s over a single 312 or a pair of 308s over one 310. Use one in small rooms and both in larger or more difficult ones.

[tpandela]

We plug 3 mics into a small Mackie mixer into channel 2 of my Quilter MP2-8 on the floor. This trio does a lot of 1 hour assisted living/senior center gigs and that rig has covered every gig without breaking a sweat. Quick setup and break down and sweet guitar tone too.

[shekie]

Thanks for all the replies. I need to correct something in my initial post about the size of the rooms we play in. We actually play in rooms closer to 40' x 40', sometimes even a bit larger. Should I assume two speakers would be more appropriate for that size space?

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Thanks for all the replies. I need to correct something in my initial post about the size of the rooms we play in. We actually play in rooms closer to 40' x 40', sometimes even a bit larger. Should I assume two speakers would be more appropriate for that size space?

Yes. You'll have much better coverage without being too loud for those close to or directly on axis with a single cab. You can also place them at the sides and slightly behind the front of the stage or band area to provide some monitoring.

[AllanAllen]

I would still go with the Bose S1, but maybe you'll need 2. Won't know until you try it. The cool thing is you could but 2 and still be in for less $$$ than a single QSC.

[rpjazzguitar]

What I don't know about sound reinforcement would perfectly fill a book on sound reinforcement. But, it's the Internet and I have an opinion.

For a room of say, 60x60 and 100 people, my estimation is that two fairly small and lightweight powered speakers on poles would be plenty for vocalists and guitar. So, the Bose S1 or a medium size Alto (maybe even a small Alto) would be fine. I don't know how well it would work to put bass through it. In the gigs I play the drums don't usually get mic'ed, although they probably should at times, but then the gear starts piling up.

If you're sizing the system for the biggest gig that you can imagine ever playing, then you might need something bigger and heavier. Do you want to be dragging that stuff to the smaller gigs?

For the Senior facility in a 40x40 room and not playing loud rock, I don't think you're going to need an industrial strength system. The Yamaha mixer and two small powered speakers on poles sound like plenty -- and could be enough for a much larger jazz gig.

You also have to think about monitoring. How do you make certain that everybody can hear themselves and each other on the bandstand? You might be able to do it by angling a speaker so that the musicians can hear it. Otherwise you need to feed monitors. That Yamaha mixer has an aux send on the channel strip, but to use it you have to turn off the FX. Otherwise, that knob is FX level. Another factoid about that mixer is that the FX don't pan (don't ask why I know this).

In my limited experience, singers often seem to have a small device with PA capability. That could make a good monitor. A mic can go into that and then connect the output on it to the mixer.

[Spook410]

I would still go with the Bose S1, but maybe you'll need 2. Won't know until you try it. The cool thing is you could but 2 and still be in for less $$$ than a single QSC.

Thought about an S1 and almost bought one. Decided I would provide my own battery and inexpensive mixer to a powered speaker I already had. That being said, the Electrovoice Everse series is currently getting better reviews than the Bose S1. The Everse 8 weighs about the same. Has more flexible controls. Costs just a bit more.

That being said, think I would just go for something like a pair of Alto's or JBL EON in this situation. The one's I've been around sound fine.

[shekie]

Again, appreciate all the suggestions. I think I've narrowed my choice down to either (for now), a single QSC CP8 or a single RCF Art 708A Mk5, with the option to add a second speaker if needed. Given a typical audience of 30-50 people who tend to sit and listen (rather than coffee house/bar/restaurant with the accompanying ambient background noise), I'm thinking either of these would suffice along with that Yamaha mixer.

Again, the band consists of two main vocalists using good quality condenser mics, an acoustic guitar w/pickup, a hollow body guitar and an electric bass that will be played through its own amp. The style of music is primarily jazz and popular vocal ballads of the 30's, 40's and 50's. I've done some research on the two speakers, the QSC seems far more popular, a bit smaller, two lbs. lighter. The QSC also offers some sound shaping but I would use the effects on the Yamaha mixer, so I might actually prefer less bells and whistles on the PA speaker itself. I have read in forums that the QSC can be a touch bright/harsh compared with the "smoother" sounding RCF. Does anyone have experience with both that can comment on the sound difference between the two, and which might be the preferred choice for our style of music?

[geese_com]

It is a little expensive, but I would recommend the EV Evolve 50M.

EVOLVE 50M | Electro-Voice

I have used it with various band configurations indoors and outdoors and it has handled it amazingly. We always get compliments on how good and clear the sound is. Used it for almost 100 gigs now.

If you need more power you can plug in a powered speaker or connect a second EV 50M.

[rpjazzguitar]

My experience with line array systems has been excellent. I love them. I've played through a JBL and a Bose and I've heard a band using the larger Bose for a street fair -- sounding loud and great.

But, I haven't had to carry one. The EV50M is 57 lbs, 45 of which is the sub.

The Bose L1 compact is a smaller version of that sort of technology and weighs 29 lbs.

Bose S1 weighs 15 lbs.

[shekie]

Well, after going back and reading through this thread as well as considering size and weight (recent RTC shoulder surgery), and the fact that Amazon is selling it for $100 less than regular pricing, I've ordered a Bose S1 Pro +. If I like it, I'll probably spring for another and that will allow the option for using one at smaller venues and adding the second for larger ones. One deciding factor was in addition to being able to pole mount it, It also offers a kickback option while in the vertical position for those times when there won't be enough room for the band and two pole mounted speakers. Again, greatly appreciate everyone's input.

[rpjazzguitar]

Well, after going back and reading through this thread as well as considering size and weight (recent RTC shoulder surgery), and the fact that Amazon is selling it for $100 less than regular pricing, I've ordered a Bose S1 Pro +. If I like it, I'll probably spring for another and that will allow the option for using one at smaller venues and adding the second for larger ones. One deciding factor was in addition to being able to pole mount it, It also offers a kickback option while in the vertical position for those times when there won't be enough room for the band and two pole mounted speakers. Again, greatly appreciate everyone's input.

I think you'll be happy with this choice. I found it to sound clear, warm and plenty loud. And, amazingly lightweight for how it sounds.