Seeking a "thinner" hollow body - UPDATE

[shekie]

I recently purchased the Ibanez Pat Metheny PM3C, which I very much enjoy playing. However, two months after purchasing the guitar I had to undergo rotator cuff shoulder surgery and have been given permission to try playing guitar again, but only standing, not seated to minimize straining my shoulder as it recovers. I'm able to play for maybe 20-30 minutes before having to set it down due to the discomfort. I try to do this twice daily, but have had to skip some days due to the pain. I was in good shape for 71 when I crashed by bicycle in Italy this summer, but have also been told at my age it may take longer to recover and considering an instrument that would put less stress on my shoulder in the future would be something to seriously consider.

The Metheny Ibanez has roughly a 15 3/4" lower bout width and the depth (not including the bridge) is just under 3". I'm toying with the idea of purchasing a smaller and thinner hollow body that might be closer to 15" wide in its lower bout and maybe 1 3/4 to 2" wide. One guitar that has caught my attention is the D'Angelico Excel SS Soho, though I'm sure there are others to consider.

I would like to keep my budget to $2000 tops, I would like a shorter scale, 25" or less, having played acoustic guitar for the better part of the last decade, I'm not as picky about nut width. Other than the above-mentioned D'Angelico, what else should I be considering? And in more general terms, is there actually a difference between a thinner hollow body and guitars that are designated as semi-hollow bodies?

[jazzshrink]

Scale length of the Pat Metheny PM3C is 24¾. Perhaps an Ibanez GB10SE? Or an Ibanez GB10EM? These models have a 14½" lower bout.

[Doug B]

I can relate to your problems from the accident. Same thing happened to me.(In September/24) On my bike in a bike lane and some moron in a car did a right hand turn in front of me. I hit the side of his car right between the front and back seats. If I had been 5 seconds earlier I would have gone flying over his hood. I didn't leave my apartment for a month and could hardly walk. Most damage was on the left side of my body.

ANYWAY-I stopped using a guitar strap and tried to play sitting down. I was lucky I had a Paul Reed Smith Hollowbody 10 Top 2005 which only weighs 4.9 lbs!.

Fast forward to today and now I'm back riding 8 miles or so a day, but stilll stiff!

If your budget is under $2000, you might look at the PRS SE Hollowbodies-still light guitars.
Just a moment...

And finally-get a classical guitar foot rest. This will let you keep your back against the chair for more support.

Safe riding.

Doug

[chris32895]

A cheaper option would be an Ibanez AG95, which is the same-ish size as the GB10 but with 2 humbuckers. Definitely way less expensive.

[Cunamara]

I'll put in my usual plug for a MIJ GB10. One ought to be able to find a used on under US$2000. Much better craftsmanship than the GB10s made outside of Japan.

The PRS Hollowbody SE is an interesting notion. A friend of mine bought one and I've played it a number of times. The neck is a little fuller than the GB10 (I've had it nearly 40 years, so it is the standard by which I judge other instruments). I found the sound and feel of the PRS a little "stiff", but I suspect some experimentation with strings and setup would address that. IIRC it is a 24 fret neck which pushes the pick up back towards the bridge a little bit and may count for that somewhat stiff tone. I thought the ergonomics were quite comfortable and it was lighter than my GB 10.

[Campbell_jazz]

A Guild M75 Aristocrat is a good option — it is a Les Paul sized fully hollow body archtop. Lightweight with pickup options.

[Woody Sound]

Two pickups, or one? (The D'A SoHo you mentioned is the first thing that came to my mind. But at this point you'll still probably have to spring for a new one.) The PRS SE mentioned above is nice, but I believe it is really a semi.

[Doug B]

Two pickups, or one? (The D'A SoHo you mentioned is the first thing that came to my mind. But at this point you'll still probably have to spring for a new one.) The PRS SE mentioned above is nice, but I believe it is really a semi.

No it's not a semi like a 335 is with a block runnning under the guitar to. It just has a small bit of wood to support the bridge. So really the PRS SE that I mentioned is 85% a hollowbody.


Doug

[Doug B]

Oh, I just thought of another one-Epiphone Casino or the smaller brother is the Epiphone Casino Coupe at 14" lower bout.

Doug

[Average Joe]

They're not fully hollow, there's a sound post in there, but how about the Eastman Romeo?
Ibanez have the AM2000, which I *think* is fully hollow

[Alter]

Assuming the shoulder is the one on the picking hand, you can take out a lot of the stress by changing your playing position.

If instead of holding a guitar flat you point the headstock sideways in front of you, thus holding the guitar at an angle, this mitigates the stress from the picking shoulder to the fretting hand one, and you can balance according to taste. Many jazz players play like that, me also, I find it very comfortable.

Rodney Jones for example. Here's a photo of a friend.

[dconeill]

... I had to undergo rotator cuff shoulder surgery and have been given permission to try playing guitar again, but only standing, not seated to minimize straining my shoulder as it recovers. ...
... I would like a [guitar with a] shorter scale, 25" or less, having played acoustic guitar for the better part of the last decade ...
... And in more general terms, is there actually a difference between a thinner hollow body and guitars that are designated as semi-hollow bodies?

Which shoulder is the problem? Assuming you're right-handed, is it the weight of the guitar on your left shoulder, or the angle at which you have to hold your right arm to play, that's at issue?

I don't quite understand your statement about acoustic guitars and shorter scale lengths. Almost all acoustic guitars have 25.5" scale lengths, which you say you're used to. But then you say you want a 25" or shorter scale length. Those statements appear to be at odds.

Yes, there's a difference between hollowbodies and semihollowbodies. A hollowbody is, well, hollow. A semihollow has an internal block of one size or another. The archetypal semihollow is the Gibson ES335, with an internal block that runs the full length of the body. A semihollow in general has more sustain than a fully-hollow guitar, is somewhat heavier, and tends to inhabit a tonal zone between a plywood (or laminated, if you prefer) hollowbody and a solid body, with some of the characteristics of each.

Some guitars have a very small block inside the body that just supports the bridge. There seems to be some argument about whether to call such guitars semihollows or hollows. I would call them semihollows, I suppose, but with the caveat that they're not the same as semihollows like the ES335. Maybe call them "nearly-hollow"?

A few shallow (back-to-front) and less wide (side-to-side) guitars worth looking at are:
PRS
SE Hollowbody Standard
SE Hollowbody Standard Piezo
SE Hollowbody II Piezo
Strong points of the PRSes include that they hang well on a strap due to the body geometry, and they're lightweight. A weak point is that they don't "look" like jazz guitars.

Ibanez
AMH90 - "nearly-hollow"
AM2000 - not sure if this one is fully hollow
These look more-or-less like scaled-down ES335s. When I tried an AMH90 it had a tendency to neck-dive.

A possible problem with the Ibanez George Benson GB10 models and the AG95 is that they're 3.625" or 92mm deep - as deep as a full-size archtop - and might cause the OP shoulder problems.

D'Angelico
The Excel 59 and Deluxe 59 models are said to be 16" wide and 1.75" deep. Might work.
The SS Excel Soho mentioned by the OP is 15" x 1.75", has a floating pickup

Guild
The Starfire III is a thin, hollow single-cutaway, but has a vibrato bar

Godin
Some Godin models, particularly the A6 line, might be suitable.

[shekie]

To clarify my initial post, the shoulder in question is my right shoulder, picking hand. As for the mention of playing acoustic, I meant I was used to playing a 1.75mm nut width and the Ibanez Metheny is 1.68, so I'm comfortable with either width. I would like to keep the scale length to 25" or lower, the Ibanez Metheny is 24.75". Finally, I don't know that I care if it has 1 pickup or 2. I've only owned the Ibanez Metheny which only has a neck pickup, so I guess I don't know what I'm missing in not having a bridge pickup. But I think I would be fine either way, maybe prefer a single pickup just to limit how many ways I can screw up the sound.

Lots of choices to consider, appreciate everyone's input and suggestions.

[Woody Sound]

No it's not a semi like a 335 is with a block runnning under the guitar to. It just has a small bit of wood to support the bridge. So really the PRS SE that I mentioned is 85@ a hollowbody.
Doug

I consider this a semi, as the solid block coupling the top and back really inhibits vibration. I've owned a few of them, the sound really is more like a semi. But others may disagree.

[arnie65]

I second the suggestion on the PRS Hollowbody SE II, it's a light, thin guitar that's a joy to play. I borrowed one from a friend of mine, and you can play that thing for hours without exerting yourself...
Won't break your budget either.



Cheers,
Arnie..

[Woody Sound]

I second the suggestion on the PRS Hollowbody SE II, it's a light, thin guitar that's a joy to play. I borrowed one from a friend of mine, and you can play that thin for hours without exerting yourself...
Won't break your budget either.

And if you like black...

[339 in june]

Eastman T145 SM :
15" body width
Solid wood
25" scale
1 3/4" nut width
1 3/4" body depth

It ticks a lot of your cases, apparently

[John A.]

For thin hollow bodies I'd look at:
- Eastman: AR403 and AR503. They're both around 2.5" thick. The 503 has a carved spruce top and is on the brighter end of the spectrum for an archtop. The 403 has a lam top and is a little warmer (and a little cheaper).
- Guild: Starfire II, T50, and T100

[L50EF15]

For thinline hollow bodies, I can vouch for 1) the Epiphone Casino, the least expensive “worn finish” version at that. At $499, it’s a screaming bargain with superb fit and finish.

2) If you have the itch to go vintage and prefer a single cutaway, consider the Gibson ES-125TC. I had one for a few years, but had to sell it 20 years ago. I still miss it. I even went so far as to inquire whether I could get one made by the Gibson Custom Shop (no dice, unfortunately).

[sgosnell]

The Eastman T145 may be hard to find, but the T146 should be easier. The difference is that the T145 has a 15" lower bout, the T146 a 16" lower bout. They're both fully hollow, very light, and sound good. They should be available used well under $2,000. I no longer own my T145, and regret selling it. I sold it because it became somewhat redundant after I bought a Benedetto Bambino Deluxe, and given the opportunity, I would keep the T145 and not buy the Benedetto. The T145 is thinner, lighter, and if my memory doesn't fail me, better sounding than the Bambino. The T145 has a nominal 1.75" nut width, wider than the Bambino Deluxe, but thinner back to front. It may take some searching to find either a T145 or T146 for sale, but they do come up now and then.

[DRS]

Godin Montreal Premier

[2bornot2bop]

The 2.5” thick Eastman Elite on the For Sale page.

[shekie]

Just wanted to update the thread, this morning I ordered a Guild T-50 Slim hollow body from Sweetwater, who has a significant sale on them at the moment. The link to Guild's website: T-50 Slim Vintage Sunburst | Guild Guitars

My hope is that the 1 3/4" depth will make it a bit easier on my shoulder as it heals from surgery, and that it will still provide the sound I seek for playing jazz, plugged in for gigs and acoustically for practice at home. Appreciate all the advice and feedback in helping me choose.

[L50EF15]

The Guild is a great choice! It is basically Guild’s equivalent to the ES-125TC (which in turn is a thinline version of the ES-125, in other words, an ES-175 without the bling).

I have thought about getting this model myself. In fact, RetroFret has a vintage one for sale at a very reasonable price. Hmmm…

[Rickco]

I had a simular health issue and bought a new T50 (ltd w dynasonic) I had a '60 Starfire III in excellent condition on extended loan which played and sounded exceptional. I liked the new T50 so much I bought a new SFIII (ltd w minibuckers). Mine are '23s. Guild nailed it with these 2 and although they are made in Korea they are every bit as well built and nearly identical in sound to U.S. models. I like the dynasonic in the T50 but I think the p90 version might be a little warmer and 125t like, on the other hand the minis on the SFIII are nearly identical in sound to the old originals. For comparison I have a nice assortment of carved archtops and a really sweet old 175. Ive had the 175 for over 50yrs and its special to me however it hasnt come out of the case since the Guilds hit the door! Theyre thinner lighter and sound and play just as well and I really like the new SFIII better then the original '60 or the 175. From earlier experience and recordings I think the the T50 is also easily on par with a 125t or the Epi equivelant. Congrats on your new guitar, theyre light as a feather and mine came with the best factory setup Ive ever experienced after a 1/64" action adjustment Im still playing them right out of the box.