Are floating pickups a compromise in sound, compared with a full sized pickup?

[GuyBoden]

I've had many floating pickups over many years.

Shadow Attila Zollar,
Kent Armstrong Mini Humbucker (UK)
Kent Armstrong P90 (Single coil) (UK)
Kent Armstrong 12 pole (Humbucker) (UK)
Lollar McCarty pickguitar.
Artec MHFA94: AlNiCo bar magnet (surprisingly good, inexpensive floating pickup)
Bareknuckle Stormy Monday Alnico 2 (Full sized pickup, but fitted as floating)

But, the best sounding floating pickup was a full sized Bareknuckle Stormy Monday, which I mounted to the pickguard of my handbuilt seven string archtop about 15 years ago.

The gap between the top of the guitar and the bottom of the string will dictate whether you can float a full sized pickup. (Is this the main reason why the thinner floating pickups are used?)

Based on this small amount of evidence, I decided that the sound of floating pickups was a compromise in sound, compared with a full sized pickup?

[Marty Grass]

Another question is whether mounted pickups compromise the acoustic sound. If so, does that compromise the amplified sound?

The sounds are different when comparing the Dearmond 1100 to a mounted humbucker or P-90.

Going back to the greats, Johnny Smith's amplified sound is beautiful, as is Wes Montgomery.

Feedback is yet another issue.

Lastly, many of us practice without amplification. The sound is projected more to the space in front of us than to our ears without amplification.

"You pays your money and you takes your choice."

[GuyBoden]

Another question is whether mounted pickups compromise the acoustic sound. If so, does that compromise the amplified sound?

I've seen many nice archtops with foam stuck between the bottom of the floating pickup and the carved top. Does that compromise the amplified sound?

If you have enough of a gap, I would recommend floating a full sized pickup mounted to a pickguard, if you can.

[Jimmy blue note]

If you have enough of a gap, I would recommend floating a full sized pickup mounted to a pickguard, if you can.

One point to consider in regards to this good advice: The output on a full sized pickup can tend to be hotter than the magnets and windings on a floater. So most everyone makes use of the height adjustment to keep the pickup from creating a harsh "in your face" sound of a pickup placed too close to the string.
If you mount a floater, whether on the pickguard or neck, your adjustability is virtually zero; Ibanez GB guitars do allow you to adjust the height of the bridge pickup via a screw that couples the pickguard to the top, but that's a solution that's not even available for a neck pickup on a GB.

When you have a top mounted pickup, you can adjust the height. If you attach it to a fixed point, you've got one chance to get it right. But go for it, nothing to lose by broadening your learning curve.

[bluejaybill]

I have an Armstrong 12 pole PAF style pickup mounted as a floater.

First off, the pickup is full size and identical to the one he makes to install like a normal pickup (he told me this himself when I ordered it). The pickup sounds nice and full and is easily the most similar to a built-in that I've tried.

But since it's a floater, it has a bit more air and maybe a bit less "solidity" than a built-in. Since I have other guitars with built-in pickups, and I wanted primarily an acoustic instrument, I was happy to get a bit different tone with the floater, but many that are made sound "thin" to me, for my style anyway. That includes several Johnnie Smith types that I have tried. The Armstrong is the first that I've been happy with.

Second, if you mount to the pick guard, you do have some adjustability, particularly moving it further from the string, by putting a spacer between the PG and the tab. And on the Armstrong you have a ton of adjustability with the 12 pole pieces- thankfully, because it can be difficult if not impossible to dial in a floater otherwise. The 12 pole is the first that allowed me to balance the sound on that guitar.

Third, if mounted on the pick guard, you usually put a couple of pieces of adhesive backed foam on the other side to maintain the level where you want it. I don't believe it makes any difference to the sound, electric or acoustic. Mark C uses them freely, and I doubt that he would do that if they compromised tone.

Finally, one of the main reasons to use a floater is to maximize the acoustic sound of the guitar. Floaters generally allow the top to move more freely. And floater guitars are often carved thinner to be better as acoustic guitars. This also tends to worsen feedback. If you are only interested in the electric sound, I'm not sure a floater is the best answer, unless that "airier" tone is what you're looking for, many folks prefer it.

[Cunamara]

The sound of a floating pickup is not a compromise. It may not be the sound you want. Pete Bernstein has a floater on his Zeidler; is his tone compromised? To me it sounds much better than his ES-175 or his L-5.

On my archtop, I have had multiple floating pickups. It came with an Allparts JS sized floater, attached to the pickguard. Not what I wanted. I tried a Kent Armstrong on the pickguard, then a monkey-on-a-stick pickup, neither what I wanted. I formulated a theory that the isolation of the pickup by mounting it on the pickguard was the cause of a stringy kind of tone, so I made a neck-mounted modified Classic 57 which sounded pretty good, but much too close to the strings. Then I tried a neck-mounted Pete Biltoft CC humbucker-sized pickup. That was easily the best up to that point, but the noise drove me nuts (old house wiring, unpredictable noise sources at gigs, but sounded great when it wasn't humming. I did fix a ground problem in the wiring which helped quite a bit). Now I have a Pete Biltoft PAF neck mounted floater and that's it. Boom.

A lot of farting around because the sound I wanted was really an ES-175 (specifically Jim Hall's on the Live! album) and the only way to get that is to be Jim Hall with his ES-175. I finally got a very nice sounding and playing ES-175 earlier this year and, interestingly enough, it has also given me a newfound appreciation for the voice the floater brings to the table.

I also have a 1981 Ibanez GB10- my first electric guitar- which is fantastic. It has its own voice and had a lot more tones in it than George's. If I could only have one electric, it'd be this one.

[JazzNote]

I think the only compromise is the reduced output, not the sound! The sound is determined primarily by the characteristics of the individual PU.

I have played (and still am playing) the following floaters: Bartolini, Kent Armstrong (different 6 & 12 pole, asian licensed as well as US handmade), Shadow Attila Zoller, Biltoft P90, original Gibson Johnny Smith, Gibson Johnny Smith as in the Lee Ritenour signature models, Gibson BJB, Boris Dommenget, Guild floater as in Artist Award, reissue DeArmond 1100, Heritage floater as on Golden Eagle, and a Harry Häussl 12 pole is waiting to get installed.

They all have their "personalities" eg. the Bartolini sounds kind of "woody" to me, the Dommenget much more electric. Some i like(d) very much, some less so they got replaced.

Compared to the built in humbuckers in my L5s, Tal and ES335 (including a seymor duncan jazz humbucker) they do not sound inferior at all!

[Christian Miller]

The sound of a floating pickup is not a compromise. It may not be the sound you want. Pete Bernstein has a floater on his Zeidler; is his tone compromised? To me it sounds much better than his ES-175 or his L-5.

Just to note - Pete has a Gibson humbucker on his guitar installed as a floating pickup. He was quite specific that about that being the sound he wanted.

[sgosnell]

For me, it depends on the guitar and the pickup. I have guitars with full-size set humbuckers, and guitars with floaters. I've come to prefer the sound of DeArmond Rhythm Chief pickups on most guitars. They come the closest to the sound I want to hear, which may not be the sound anyone else wants, but they do it for me. I once preferred the sound of a set humbucker in a laminate top, and that's still okay, but the RC lightly coupled to the top with Blu-Tack has replaced that preference. It has a little more snap, a little more of the acoustic tone, and is a little more responsive. There isn't a huge difference, but enough for me to rarely play my humbucker-equipped guitars. Pickup sound is a highly personal subject, and there are markets for many different makes and models. My suggestion is to use whatever pickup sounds best to you, although installing a floating pickup on a guitar that is already routed for a set pickup is going to be problematic. It can be done, but too many compromises may be necessary, to state the obvious.

[2bornot2bop]

I don’t feel it’s a compromise at all. I’ve had better than excellent results with the Bartolini 5J. Also Gibson’s BJB was nothing less than superb. I’ve also had a Kent Armstrong 12 pole PAF that was very decent. Even a Pete Biltoft pickup was great. So, in the end it depends on what floater you’re using. Like humbuckers, every floating pickup yields different results.

[burchyk]

For the sake of balance between the notes fretted low and high up the neck, I like the pickups to be much further from the strings than the floating setup allows on most guitars.

[Alter]

The only problem i have with my Elferink that has a floating Ken Armstrong single coil pickup, is that it is mounded together with the pickguard, and if i hit the pickguard with my nails, the sound comes through. It is a different sound from humbuckers for sure. I enjoy it for what it is.

[Cunamara]

Just to note - Pete has a Gibson humbucker on his guitar installed as a floating pickup. He was quite specific that about that being the sound he wanted.

Yes, from a Gibson Howard Roberts.

[Cunamara]

They come the closest to the sound I want to hear, which may not be the sound anyone else wants, but they do it for me.

Bingo, right on! If it isn't the tone you want, it isn't the tone you want.

[burchyk]

Alter you make some sweet sounds with that Elferink for sure! Well any guitar for that matter, but your Elferink videos usually have my favourite tones.