Poor Man's L-5?

[raylinds]

About a month ago I purchased an Epiphone Broadway and have absolutely fallen in love with it. I have had dozens of guitars over the years, but this is one of the nicest feeling guitars I have ever played, the neck, action, everything feels great, and it is effortless to play. It makes me practice a LOT and that is critical for me. The build quality is exceptional, and I cannot find a flaw.

While I could live with it as-as it is just a little too dark and dull sounding for my taste. While I love the classic dark jazz tone, I want something with a little bit more articulation.

I have also become obsessed with the Gibson L-5CES. The Broadway shares a lot of traits in common with the L-5 except it is a laminate and not carved.

Now many are going to think me crazy, and I would not disagree, but I have assembled parts to transform the tone to one I prefer and make it cosmetically as close to an L-5 as I can (being a laminate, it will never have the same sound as a real L-5, but I like the sound of laminate jazz boxes). And, yes, I spent a crazy amount of money on parts, but I can do all the work myself. I did this because I honestly love this guitar and it will be my (not quite) holy grail jazz guitar and, being retired and a non-gigging player, I cannot justify the price of a real L-5.

I have purchased Fralin Pure PAF pups (7.5k and 8k) and assembled the parts to build my own wiring harness:
CTS 5% tolerance 500k pots
Switchcraft pickup selector and output jack
Jupiter Vitamin Q PIO .022 caps (arriving Monday)
Cloth covered 22 gauge wire

For the L-5 look I purchased the following items:
A genuine L-5 tailpiece
Tun-O-Matic bridge
Kluson premium Keystone tuners (Revolution tuners, not the Sealfast like the real thing, but look the same from the front of the guitar)
Custom "see-through" dark brown tortoise pickguard (will take several weeks)

Yes, it is absolute overkill but will be as close to the real thing as I can get for a small fraction of the price (about $2k). I have to say the thought of spending $500 on a tailpiece gave me pause, but when I got it the looks and feel and workmanship on it is astounding- pictures don't do it justice. It is one heavy piece!

I am starting on it today and will post some pictures of the build as I go for anyone interested.

[Gitterbug]

Hey, good luck with the project! Is this a current-production Broadway or an older one? Whichever, good to hear you find the build quality flawless. I love my 90's Emperor Regent, which is getting better all the time. The stupid Frequensator tailpiece has stayed in place for the sake of authenticity. Your investment may not be rewarded at the end of the day but who cares.

[raylinds]

Hey, good luck with the project! Is this a current-production Broadway or an older one? Whichever, good to hear you find the build quality flawless. I love my 90's Emperor Regent, which is getting better all the time. The stupid Frequensator tailpiece has stayed in place for the sake of authenticity. Your investment may not be rewarded at the end of the day but who cares.

Thanks! It is a current-production, and no I never expect to recoup my investment, but you are right- I don't care. I have almost 20 guitars and I think I would sell all of them but this one- I love it that much. I kind of liked the Frequensator tailpiece as being classic Epiphone and it was on the original Broadways. I was planning on keeping it until I got this crazy idea.

The Regent is a very classy and classic archtop. I had a Joe Pass Epi in the early 90s, but didn't like it very much. I bought it used and am sure it was an original production model that I understand they much improved upon later. I remember the pickguard in particular was very cheap looking- cheap plastic with very poor graphic simulation of tortoise. The pickguard on the Broadway is actually pretty nice, but I wanted something really see-through to look vintage.

[Sleeko]

This sounds like fun. Can't wait to see what you do.

[Archie]

About a month ago I purchased an Epiphone Broadway and have absolutely fallen in love with it. I have had dozens of guitars over the years, but this is one of the nicest feeling guitars I have ever played, the neck, action, everything feels great, and it is effortless to play. It makes me practice a LOT and that is critical for me. The build quality is exceptional, and I cannot find a flaw.

While I could live with it as-as it is just a little too dark and dull sounding for my taste. While I love the classic dark jazz tone, I want something with a little bit more articulation.

I have also become obsessed with the Gibson L-5CES. The Broadway shares a lot of traits in common with the L-5 except it is a laminate and not carved.

Now many are going to think me crazy, and I would not disagree, but I have assembled parts to transform the tone to one I prefer and make it cosmetically as close to an L-5 as I can (being a laminate, it will never have the same sound as a real L-5, but I like the sound of laminate jazz boxes). And, yes, I spent a crazy amount of money on parts, but I can do all the work myself. I did this because I honestly love this guitar and it will be my (not quite) holy grail jazz guitar and, being retired and a non-gigging player, I cannot justify the price of a real L-5.

I have purchased Fralin Pure PAF pups (7.5k and 8k) and assembled the parts to build my own wiring harness:
CTS 5% tolerance 500k pots
Switchcraft pickup selector and output jack
Jupiter Vitamin Q PIO .022 caps (arriving Monday)
Cloth covered 22 gauge wire

For the L-5 look I purchased the following items:
A genuine L-5 tailpiece
Tun-O-Matic bridge
Kluson premium Keystone tuners (Revolution tuners, not the Sealfast like the real thing, but look the same from the front of the guitar)
Custom "see-through" dark brown tortoise pickguard (will take several weeks)

Yes, it is absolute overkill but will be as close to the real thing as I can get for a small fraction of the price (about $2k). I have to say the thought of spending $500 on a tailpiece gave me pause, but when I got it the looks and feel and workmanship on it is astounding- pictures don't do it justice. It is one heavy piece!

I am starting on it today and will post some pictures of the build as I go for anyone interested.

The most important part is your enthusiasm and doing something that makes you happy, regardless of whether it's 'silly'.
I'm going to buy a 'make your own blackface' amp kit, which is a silly idea but I know I'm going to love every second of doing it.

Carry on.

[deacon Mark]

If we don't get picture this is fantasy thread and it never happened. Would love to see who it turns out to be.

[raylinds]

The most important part is your enthusiasm and doing something that makes you happy, regardless of whether it's 'silly'.
I'm going to buy a 'make your own blackface' amp kit, which is a silly idea but I know I'm going to love every second of doing it.

Carry on.

I think that is a great idea! You will learn a lot. For my home Hi-Fi I built a pair of monoblock 300B SET amps, a tube preamp and speakers after doing a lot of research, studying and practice soldering. I bought some cheap components and boards and practiced soldering on those.

[rolijen]

Great project! It certainly is an education! I too love Broadways and have done precisely this project a few times. I’ve never added a genuine L-5 tailpiece, but pickups, harness/pots/caps, bridges, tuners, tailpiece and pickguard upgrades can really turn a great affordable guitar into something you will appreciate more and love to play. Which, in the end, is what it’s all about.

Good luck! Please post pics!

roli

[JazzIsGood]

Cool project! Are you gonna put on flatwounds? That would probably tie it all together.
Nothing wrong with laminate, it can sound really good.

[lawson-stone]

Thanks! It is a current-production, and no I never expect to recoup my investment, but you are right- I don't care. I have almost 20 guitars and I think I would sell all of them but this one- I love it that much. I kind of liked the Frequensator tailpiece as being classic Epiphone and it was on the original Broadways. I was planning on keeping it until I got this crazy idea.

The Regent is a very classy and classic archtop. I had a Joe Pass Epi in the early 90s, but didn't like it very much. I bought it used and am sure it was an original production model that I understand they much improved upon later. I remember the pickguard in particular was very cheap looking- cheap plastic with very poor graphic simulation of tortoise. The pickguard on the Broadway is actually pretty nice, but I wanted something really see-through to look vintage.

The major difference and it can't be changed, is the Broadway is about a quarter inch, maybe 3/8 inch, thinner than the L5ces. But that should not be an impediment to your enjoying this project. You will get pretty close to the vibe of the L5ces. I have both, and an Aria Pro II PE180 in between, and they're all among my first-reached-for instruments.

[raylinds]

Cool project! Are you gonna put on flatwounds? That would probably tie it all together.
Nothing wrong with laminate, it can sound really good.

Yes- I will continue using the TI swing .012s

[AllanAllen]

I like the frequencator tailpiece

[Archie]

Ray don't forget you can always resell the tail piece and other parts, so it's not a black hole. You're just using them temporarily until you cash out.
Take all you costs and chop off 30%. So you could persuade yourself that the real cost is about $600.
Or allow me to persuade you instead. It's more convincing coming from a 3rd party

[raylinds]

The major difference and it can't be changed, is the Broadway is about a quarter inch, maybe 3/8 inch, thinner than the L5ces. But that should not be an impediment to your enjoying this project. You will get pretty close to the vibe of the L5ces. I have both, and an Aria Pro II PE180 in between, and they're all among my first-reached-for instruments.

You're right their different, but the L-5 CES is 3 3/8 and the Broadway is 3 3/16, so 3/16 difference.

[Tal_175]

Thanks! It is a current-production, and no I never expect to recoup my investment, but you are right- I don't care.

If you don't expect to recoup all or most of your investment towards the guitar, a real L5CES would've been cheaper in the long run, IMO. You can buy a decent one for around 8000$ and when you sell it down the line you're pretty much guaranteed to get the money back plus the inflation. If the guitar prices in the last 10-20 years is an indication, you'd probably get more than the inflation rate when you sell it. But since you are happy with the broadway, none of this matters very much.

[raylinds]

All the parts are here and the building has commenced. L-5 Tailpiece installed, taking plenty of time to ensure proper alignment.

[raylinds]

If you don't expect to recoup all or most of your investment towards the guitar, a real L5CES would've been cheaper in the long run, IMO. You can buy a decent one for around 8000$ and when you sell it down the line you're pretty much guaranteed to get the money back plus the inflation. If the guitar prices in the last 10-20 years is an indication, you'd probably get more than the inflation rate when you sell it. But since you are happy with the broadway, none of this matters very much.

I agree with what you are saying but, even though I have bought and sold a number of guitars I don't buy them with the intent to sell them and don't look at them as investments. I think the Broadway is a keeper and an L5 would absolutely be a keeper. SInce I am retired I can't justify $8k on a guitar, but I do some free-lance consulting and if I land a long-term gig, that could change. Then there's also the ES-175...

[Doctor Jeff]

Looks like a good project.

I know how to solder, but I don't like fiddling with the small parts very much, so for the last few guitars I've changed wiring on I've gone with a prewired harness from Guitar Fetish. Stew Mac has pre-wired harnesses too, probably of better quality but more $$.

Look forward to seeing the final result.

[Archie]

If you don't expect to recoup all or most of your investment towards the guitar, a real L5CES would've been cheaper in the long run, IMO. You can buy a decent one for around 8000$ and when you sell it down the line you're pretty much guaranteed to get the money back plus the inflation. If the guitar prices in the last 10-20 years is an indication, you'd probably get more than the inflation rate when you sell it. But since you are happy with the broadway, none of this matters very much.

I don't think he'll have too much trouble selling the tail piece and pickups for 30% less than what he paid.

[wintermoon]

I don't think he'll have too much trouble selling the tail piece and pickups for 30% less than what he paid.

I don't know about the pickups but I see no reason he couldn't easily get all of his $ back on the t.p.

[Boze]

While my experience is limited, it closely overlaps with your Broadway project so I wanted to chime in:

1) absolutely replace those pickups. I just got a MIK Broadway on Craigslist for a friend and, just like my Zephyr Regent and Emperor, the og pickups are shite. I put Fralin Pures in the Emperor and that plus a cheap rosewood bridge is all it needed. Which leads me to...

2) you're supposed to use shielded coaxial wire for archtop harnesses and not the cloth pushback wire the internet wants you to buy. I redid the whole harness for the Emperor's Fralins like you're planning and used gavitt cloth wire by mistake and it makes it more susceptible to interference etc. I settled on this 22awg shielded wire for the mulligan and still need to do that.

Those are my only real contributions. Of the three MIK Epiphones in my house, the Broadway has the prettiest stock tailpiece, but the one you splurged on is good looking. I also don't find the Broadway's tuners to be a problem, although I already replaced the ones on the Zephyr with Gibsons so I can hardly object.

[raylinds]

While my experience is limited, it closely overlaps with your Broadway project so I wanted to chime in:

1) absolutely replace those pickups. I just got a MIK Broadway on Craigslist for a friend and, just like my Zephyr Regent and Emperor, the og pickups are shite. I put Fralin Pures in the Emperor and that plus a cheap rosewood bridge is all it needed. Which leads me to...

2) you're supposed to use shielded coaxial wire for archtop harnesses and not the cloth pushback wire the internet wants you to buy. I redid the whole harness for the Emperor's Fralins like you're planning and used gavitt cloth wire by mistake and it makes it more susceptible to interference etc. I settled on this 22awg shielded wire for the mulligan and still need to do that.

Those are my only real contributions. Of the three MIK Epiphones in my house, the Broadway has the prettiest stock tailpiece, but the one you splurged on is good looking. I also don't find the Broadway's tuners to be a problem, although I already replaced the ones on the Zephyr with Gibsons so I can hardly object.

Thanks for the input- I have ordered some shielded wire. The tuner change was strictly cosmetic. There is nothing wrong with the stock Epi tuners, but the Klusons give the authentic L5 look and I have to say they are very high quality tuners.

[raylinds]

I finally finished the build and I think it looks great! It also sounds great with the Fralin pups, but it is not a dramatic improvement. I think this shows how good the new Epiphone pickups are, but the Pure PAFs definitely have more articulation and detail.



I think the tailpiece is beautiful





The only obvious giveaway of its true heritage- the Kluson tuners are very solid and attractive.



I can't find the pickguard screw, but I hope it shows up when I do a serious cleanup of the workspace. I'm off to practice.

[sgosnell]

Without that pickguard screw you may get some buzzing when you play. The pickguard can vibrate against the support. Maybe not, but if it does, it's easily fixable with a screw.

[Boze]

Looks great, nicely done!

What year is your Broadway again? I'm surprised the Fralins aren't a night and day difference like the Pures in my Emperor and the 57 Classic in the Zephyr. As soon as I plugged in this blonde MIK Broadway I got for my friend I thought "yeah, these pickups are also terrible."