Guitar/amp prices going down

[olejason]

I've noticed despite everything else you still people trying to sell old beat up Harmony archtops for a thousand dollars.

[Doctor Jeff]

I've noticed despite everything else you still people trying to sell old beat up Harmony archtops for a thousand dollars.

Wow...I've got one I should sell!

I don't see that much. Good ones can go for $600-1000, but less pristine ones are more like $100-300. Which is still too much for a guitar that may be barely playable and needs most parts replaced.

[Doctor Jeff]

An important thing to keep in mind is that there isn’t really ONE guitar market. The mainstream guitar market often behaves very differently than the high end, vintage, or collectors’ markets, markets which may or may not overlap.

Articles like those linked above are focused on the mainstream market of factory built, predominantly sold by large retailers.

I agree. What's different though is that in years past the MSRP was just a suggestion. Gibsons for instance routinely sold for 10,20,30% less than MSRP.

However, now it's rare to see a decent guitar priced much less than MSRP unless there's some sort of "special deal". Forget about asking for a discount.

At least that's been my experience.

[Mick-7]

How do you explain this sort of buying behavior? Is it a form of tulip madness?

Tex Richards Epiphone Banjo Co 1936 Epiphone Deluxe Archtop | ShopGoodwill.com

[ThatRhythmMan]

How do you explain this sort of buying behavior? Is it a form of tulip madness?

Tex Richards Epiphone Banjo Co 1936 Epiphone Deluxe Archtop | ShopGoodwill.com

There may be people bidding on that guitar without realizing just how much work it needs and part of the reason is that the binding size Epiphone was using can’t be purchased off the shelf nowadays. That many layers of custom binding is going to be a lot of work, and that’s after work to remove all of the nitric acid and associated nastiness.

That said, I haven’t seen auction house hammer prices drop at all.


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[Litterick]

How do you explain this sort of buying behavior? Is it a form of tulip madness?

Tex Richards Epiphone Banjo Co 1936 Epiphone Deluxe Archtop | ShopGoodwill.com

That guitar is an historic artefact of the Rusty Reuben Radio Gang, as much as it is a musical instrument. The paperwork adds to it value. The bidders could be museums.

[Mick-7]

That guitar is an historic artefact of the Rusty Reuben Radio Gang, as much as it is a musical instrument. The paperwork adds to it value. The bidders could be museums.

I'm skeptical of that, it's awfully beat up and the photo and paperwork appear to to be generic. If it truly has historic value, I wouldn't think the owner would just donate it to Good Will. However, the bidders must've believed it's a valuable collectable, I've never seen a guitar sell for anywhere near that price on Good Will: closing bid = $4,457.00!

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I'm skeptical of that, it's awfully beat up and the photo and paperwork appear to to be generic. If it truly has historic value, I wouldn't think the owner would just donate it to Good Will. However, the bidders must've believed it's a valuable collectable, I've never seen a guitar sell for anywhere near that price on Good Will: closing bid = $4,457.00!

I don't know what to think of this. All I know is that Rusty Reuben's band played "hillbilly music", which could have been anything from bluegrass to jugs and washtubs. They weren't exactly unknowns, but they weren't up for a Grammy either. So if that was Rusty's guitar, it's value is dependent solely on who ("if anyone" was my first thought) wants it and why. I suppose one of his descendants might want it for sentimental value, but it wasn't destined to hang on Gruhn's wall or bring record bids at Christie's. FWIW, I found a picture of the band in its glory days as the Rusty Reuben Boys:



I was confused at first when seeing the guitar played lefty with the pickguard correctly placed for a LH player (in the picture to which Litterick's post has a link). But that picture is reversed - the accordionist is playing the keyboard with her left hand in the central pic. The other pictures are correctly oriented, so it appears to be the same guitar (and not a lefty).



Seeing the guy with the lasso, I wonder if Rusty's band was the inspiration for "More cowbell !!"

[JGinNJ]

Sale prices at Guitarsnjazz also indicate prices might be coming down. They list a price, it doesn't budge so they lower the price. There's several of them there too.

One EG is Sadowsky J.H. marked down from $5.5K to$4.95. Joe V has one that just went on hold. It was listed at under $5K earlier this week. Of course, we can't know if Joe's price was high compared to GnJ's since we can't compare the instruments side by side.

I was just saying that archtop prices seem to me to be coming down a bit, outside of Reverb. Sellers aren't moving them at the prices they used to move them at, and in some cases they're lowering the ask.

I think I'm seeing more of this than I used to and wondering if anyone else feels the same.

You're not imagining it. I was checking around, considering selling one of my archtops. Some big sellers were telling me they have hundreds of instruments (not just archtops) they have to sell. Older baby boomers are trying to sell off their collections, too. Archtops are just not generally popular, either. I went to the big Philly guitar show last year, there were only a handful of archtops there, and anything affordable was in horrible condition.

[ThatRhythmMan]

You're not imagining it. I was checking around, considering selling one of my archtops. Some big sellers were telling me they have hundreds of instruments (not just archtops) they have to sell. Older baby boomers are trying to sell off their collections, too. Archtops are just not generally popular, either. I went to the big Philly guitar show last year, there were only a handful of archtops there, and anything affordable was in horrible condition.

Comparing archtops to Strats and Les Pauls in popularity isn’t really worthwhile. Archtops are niche instruments like classical guitars are. I don’t think it means anything if you were to say “no one wants classical guitars”. How many classical guitars did you see at the show?


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[RJVB]

As far as a brick and mortar store having to go to smaller digs that's the reality of trying to compete with online sellers not that people are not buying guitars.

This one also sells online so I don't think the argument really flies.

Archtops are niche instruments like classical guitars are.

I'd say (much) more so. Just compare the membership numbers on the few well-known CG forums with the number here, or the number of people posting in the classical vs. the archtop subforums of the American Gutt Fearing hangout.

[ThatRhythmMan]

This one also sells online so I don't think the argument really flies.



I'd say (much) more so. Just compare the membership numbers on the few well-known CG forums with the number here, or the number of people posting in the classical vs. the archtop subforums of the American Gutt Fearing hangout.

I would agree with you there. There is a larger market for classical guitars than archtops, especially on a worldwide scale.


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[wintermoon]

Despite the condition that's a fairly rare guitar, asymmetric headstock Deluxes don't pop up every day, especially w orig finish (or what's left of it on this example) I'd venture to say you'll see at least ten 1930s L-5s for every Deluxe during that period if not more. I sold my last two, both '39s to a friend last year that he had coveted for a long time.

[bluejaybill]

You're not imagining it. I was checking around, considering selling one of my archtops. Some big sellers were telling me they have hundreds of instruments (not just archtops) they have to sell. Older baby boomers are trying to sell off their collections, too. Archtops are just not generally popular, either. I went to the big Philly guitar show last year, there were only a handful of archtops there, and anything affordable was in horrible condition.

I'm not sure that only seeing a few arch tops in bad condition at a show means that they are unpopular.

They are certainly less popular than vintage Martins, LP's, strats and telecasters, but there are people out there with deep pockets who are collecting them, for sure. And that could be why you don't see many of them at guitar shows.

Most arch tops were purchased by pro players, especially the high end ones (very expensive back then and mostly pros who could afford them). Pros would tend to play them hard, maybe modify them, drop them, bounce them around in the back of a bus etc. So vintage high end ones are often not in great condition, in my experience anyway.

EDIT: Oh, and I'm not so sure about some of your other premises either. Yes, people who bought a lot of guitars during covid are now looking to dump some of them. I suppose some collectors of high end stuff might be thinning things out, but I don't know many who are actually liquidating their entire collections. Sure, there are a lot of guitars in circulation, and more being made each year. But the quality and vintage stuff tends to hold it's value better.

[Litterick]

The men who collected old guitars are ageing, downsizing and eventually dying. Inevitably, their collections will come on to the market. But do younger people want to collect older guitars? They don't want to collect china, furniture or baseball cards, so can the heirs of collectors reasonably expect to sell these collections?

Only last weekend, I witnessed a magnificent collection put up for auction by siblings who knew nothing about guitars, but knew their late father had made good choices. But most of the guitars did not sell.

[RyanM]

This is great news.

Hopefully this means some good archtops can get in the hands of players instead of collectors. Let me know when an L5ces is under 10k (CAD) again.

[ThatRhythmMan]

The men who collected old guitars are ageing, downsizing and eventually dying. Inevitably, their collections will come on to the market. But do younger people want to collect older guitars? They don't want to collect china, furniture or baseball cards, so can the heirs of collectors reasonably expect to sell these collections?

Only last weekend, I witnessed a magnificent collection put up for auction by siblings who knew nothing about guitars, but knew their late father had made good choices. But most of the guitars did not sell.

Was this in NZ?


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[spencer096]

im selling a 76 guild artist award right now thru consignment. it's been up 2 months, but im in no hurry and dont mind if the price comes down...certainly dont expect to fully get back what i paid. my nickerson is one of the best guitars ive ever played, by a blue guitar exhibit luthier, but id imagine id have an even harder time selling it than the guild (id never sell it though). but the reality is that if either said GIBSON on the headstock, they'd be a whole lot easier to move.

interesting to see the market changes come so quickly from the pandemic to now. it's definitely cooled off, probably for the better.

[Litterick]

Was this in NZ?

Yes. We have collectors and dealers here.

[ThatRhythmMan]

Yes. We have collectors and dealers here.

Of course! I realize there are collectors and dealers there. I would imagine the market is harder to compare to most other countries though. In the US 10 years ago I would often see archtops in auctions go for low prices or not even sell if the opening ask was too high. It may come again soon, but it hasn’t as of yet. Auctions are still often going above retail market here.


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