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I have just recorded for the first time with a valve amplifier and I am stunned by the warmth of it. I never had much money so I always used transistor amps ( I have a Roland Jazz Chorus 40).
This time around I used a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe Limited Edition "Red October" and it was so much easier to play, I don't know really how to put it. I struggled in the past to really push technically if I had the tone knob at 10. With this amp, it didn't happen. I assume a twin reverb must be even better.
Let me know what you think!
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07-06-2024 07:25 AM
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That was some smoking playing man!!! You were killing it!
I agree, a nice tube amp is much easier to play. It has "give" to the notes of your guitar. Yes, a Twin would be even better. You can pick up a silverface Twin for under a grand, possibly even as low as 600 or 700 bucks if you prowl FB marketplace or craigslist. Probably factor in the price of routine servicing and a good cart/dolly to go with it. Your level of chops make such an investment sensible, worth it, and it will be cheaper than a Deluxe but you have to have motivation to carry a heavier amp. Some guys don't that's why the affordable price tag for a legendary tube amp.
Next time you are in the Austin TX area you are welcome to come try my Twins, I gotta couple.
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Great. Initially I thought you were going to be using the Leslie!
Originally Posted by asafasadi
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Thank you Dawg! Actually I live in Italy and I have never been in the states, but if I ever visit, I will write for sure! :-)
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Hot Rods are great gigging amps only let down by their hilarious volume pots.
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I can't hear anything...(turns knob)...I still can't hear anything...(turns knob) now I can't hear anything. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Italy? Tube/valve amps? Check out GLB!
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Roberto Cecchetto was the other guitarist who was teaching in the school I went to! Such a small world. I was considering a brunetti some time ago.
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Great playing! The whole group is smoking—love a B3 through a Leslie.
Tone is great as well. The amp definitely complements your playing.
Here’s a question for the pros—would he get as much mileage from a Fender Deluxe? Maybe that would work for the venues he plays? Or maybe the Tonemaster version of the Deluxe or Twin?
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Tonemaster Twin can handle most things. I’m a fan. Modern functionality is great.
Tbh I get by just fine with a properly set up Princeton. For larger venues you’ll need monitoring. And some engineers look at you a bit funny when they have to mic a guitar amp these days.
Also I don’t play in any organ bands. Those things can get loud I’m told.
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Oh yes
Everything was extremly loud, and I was less than a meter from the drummer. Very hard for me to play well when it's that loud.
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An unmic’ed Deluxe (tube or Tonemaster) won’t cut it against a B3 in most jazz settings. A Vibrolux or equivalent is the minimum I’d recommend to push clean tones out front on its own. Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
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Or you could, you know, carry on using a Hot Rod
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I was also struck by the comparison. The Roland Jazz Chorus 40/50/75/120/whatever are all amps renowned for not being very warm. They are sort of the transistor amp's transistor amp. They are clear, bright, rather unforgiving and tend to hiss. I'm not surprised to hear that you found the Fender amp to be much warmer; that sense of being easier to play is probably the slightly forgiving, spongy quality caused by voltage sag in the amp- that's a feature, not a bug. Congratulations, you certainly made a discovery that seems to be very beneficial.
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I've always found Fender valve amps harder to play, weirdly. Something to do with my picking style.
I've adjusted it to work better.
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Sag is the term for the slight blunting of note attack that comes from a momentary drop in power when a strong input signal (eg a big, heavily strummed chord) demands more instantaneous power to the output tubes than the power supply can deliver. The current flow in the output tubes can’t meet the temporary demand, so the notes have extra rise time because they can’t come out of the power tubes as fast as they came into the preamp tubes. They’re “waiting” for the power supply to deliver the current. This is a form of signal compression - it limits peak power. Unless designed into the circuit, it’s almost always a phenomenon of tube rectification. Originally Posted by Cunamara
Single notes are rarely strong enough to cause this except in amps with grossly inadequate power supplies and tube rectifiers. It happens with power chords because they generate higher signal voltage. Very high output pickups and serious O/D boosting of the signal can make it happen with lead lines, but a 175 with stock HBs just won’t do this through any modern amp.
I could be wrong, but I don’t think sag is a factor here. With solid state rectification and adequate capacitance in the power supply, I strongly doubt that it happens in a Hot Rod driven by a 175.
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Very interesting, I must add that yes Humbuckers are stock, but I use 0.14 flat-wound strings, so I may be slightly louder.
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…but not that much louder Originally Posted by asafasadi
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How long does sag even last? I've wondered if it's even perceptible, or just something a tech noticed on a schematic presented as marketing and we all gobbled it up.
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It’s real and it’s audible. If you push an original tweed Fender into distortion for blues leads etc, the notes blossom with a chime because energy in a signal is proportional to frequency at the same SPL. So the highs take a hair longer to emerge than the lows, even though the lows are stronger in the signal because frequency response drops like a rock at higher frequencies. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
It all happens in milliseconds, but it’s definitely audible and part of the great tone of players like Carlton who started out with tweed Princetons, Harvards, Champs etc with tube rectifiers. Those little old amps sag even on single notes when pushed to their limits. My first amp was a 5 Watt 1958 tube Kay that I had to run wide open when I started gigging. It had a really sweet tone for lead and would be a great recording amp today. It broke up horribly on chords, though.
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Oh, it's part of the edge of breakup sweet spot. I get it now. Thanks!
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If it's tube rectified it's spongy in feel and response. If it's solid state rectified the response is a lot tighter and crisper, especially on the bottom end. You're not gigging a tube amp? I honestly don't know how anyone can stand the sound of the average solid state rig. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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I have a blues jr. I like it, I don't concern myself with the minutia of tone descriptors or why I like what I do. I know I like Fender tube amps and Quilter solid state amps, that's good enough for me. I've borrowed other stuff at a jam or a gig, but if I buy anything else, it'll be a Quilter. Originally Posted by DawgBone
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I heretically use a solid state rectifier in my tweed Deluxe precisely to tighten up the bottom end and be a little less bass-boomy with archtop guitars. I think I get a little more clean headroom out of it, as well. Originally Posted by DawgBone
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I love Fender tube amps, but I no longer want to carry them or depend on them. So Quilter now scratches that itch. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
I could never bond with Roland solid state amps, but I used to love Polytones. I no longer want to carry a Polytone or depend on them, so Henriksen now scratches that itch.
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