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Exceptions always can be found. But if you were to approach rock guitar or jazz guitar from the beginner's viewpoint, you would find rock chords or jazz chords ahead. The beginner wants to learn guitar and so finds an instruction book or a website that promises to show how to play in the genre. Rock instruction inevitably will be blues-based, while jazz will be straight-ahead. The beginner would have to do some digging to find Tom Verlaine or John McLaughlin. Most instruction will teach the chords associated with the recognisable, mainstream, vanilla examples of the genre. If only it were otherwise, but the market decides.
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10-18-2022 07:49 AM
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Holdsworth's hands are amazing - especially to those like me who are awed on the one hand (his) and chagrined on the other (mine). But this is where I'm thankful to be a hobbyist and content with my own goals and limitations to find a way to put my meager musical resources to work... and slimming ambitions into the achievable.... "Hey I can do this" or find another harmony.
I love my 4 fret, 4 note chords... and even their 2-note and 3-note bro's... and the gymnastics I have to do to play them.
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Joe Pass is quoted as "If a chord is hard to grip it may not be very useful".
So I agree with what Christian said about the F barre chord in 1st position.
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I always use she “short F barre chord”, e.g. when busking House Of The Rising Sun (slow Eric Burdon version) in A minor*:
Originally Posted by docsteve
x 3 3 2 1 1
barring only the 1st and 2nd string.
* one of the first songs I would teach a beginner because it includes most cowboy chords
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Depends. Drop 2 and 3's and adding extensions, I find easy.
Close voicing Johnny Smith chords? Yeah, those are a bee-yatch.
But my hands would be much happier comping 3 sets than playing 5 and 6 string barre chords!
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One of the advantages of learning one's way around the fretboard and basic theory (i.e. chord spelling, simple subs, etc.), is that we can then get away from those 5 and 6 string barre chords and into territory that suits us individually, yet still gets the job done. Good discussion in this thread.
Edit:
Stan Ayeroff created several books of arrangements ranging from standards to pop tunes, to Christmas tunes for solo guitar that work well on an archtop. There is no TAB, so to explore these, one must be able to read standard notation. I have never had a problem with that, but some of his choices of chord voicings are difficult to get into and out of smoothly even with a lot of practice.
Periodically, I revisit these books because the arrangements are interesting and worthwhile to explore. I am always focused on learning my way around the fretboard, voicing chords, and such as my daily warmup. What I have been finding in the last couple of years is that when I revisit these books, I have become much better at revoicing the chords elsewhere on the fretboard for smoother access, subbing some of the chords for more interesting (to me) movement, etc.
In other words, since I have had these books for so long, I can see my own progress in occasionally revisiting them and applying new ideas I have learned since the last time. I am finding that the more I learn about the fretboard and chords, the easier playing music becomes. It has gotten to the point where instead of learning these arrangements, they are becoming a framework from which to create my own arrangements as I understand what the author is doing musically and where I want to take it.
Unfortunately, these books are long out of print and when I see them show up used on occasion, they seem to command (in my opinion) ridiculous prices.
By the way, I THINK that when the OP refers to "jazz chords", he is referring to chords beyond simple triads, which really has little to do with how physically difficult they are to play once you learn how they are spelled and where the notes are on the fretboard so you can make the chords yourself.
To me, "cowboy" chords refer to the simple open position chords. When I have had difficult playing a barre F major chord, I find that one possibility to address that is to lower the nut slots just the tiniest bit (too much and you are in trouble). Of course, there is also finding that general voicing elsewhere on the fretboard too.
Tony
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Like I said, choose a tune, something simple like 'A Train'. Do the chords till they're not a problem. Then do another one in a different key, and so on. Soon you'll realise you're repeating the same shapes over and over. You'll soon get the idea, really. Originally Posted by KingKong
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Tbh I think the biggest issues with jazz harmony is conceptual
this isn’t hard to play
x x 5 5 5 7
but what is it?
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It's a G6/11
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Not a Abmaj7b13#9? Originally Posted by ragman1
It's a G6/11
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Either A–7/9 (9 on top) or Cmaj7 (7 on top) for me. (Barry Harris would say C6 with a borrowed diminished note.) Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Of course, the original question presupposes that 'normal' chords are all easy. Not necessarily!
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Welcome to the pain vortex
jazz is stupid
It’s like one of those exercises when you think of all the uses of two bootlaces and bucket of sand
in rock it’s one to one, see D, play D.
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I knew it wouldn't have a G6/11.
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If think the jazz chords are hard, the naming conventions will drop your jaw.
I don't know much about x x 5 5 5 7, but I enjoy playing it.
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Are you really chording according to that list? I mean some are really useful like a rootless dom13 voicing equals a maj7/b5* or so but all of them? Originally Posted by Christian Miller
Welcome to the pain vortex
jazz is stupid
It’s like one of those exercises when you think of all the uses of two bootlaces and bucket of sand
in rock it’s one to one, see D, play D.
* The nice thing is that you can shift a say rootless Db7/9/13 (bII7 = tritone sub of V) up a half-step to a Cmaj7/b5 (I).
EDIT: Of course one should know the relationship of each of the 12 notes to the possible 12 roots.
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You can't fool me. It's xx5557 Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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this is from the notorious Ben Monder pdf. I do not use all of these lol. Originally Posted by Bop Head
You can find the whole thing here.
Google Image Result for https://imgv2-2-f.scribdassets.com/img/document/262256807/298x396/f3c548c278/1566603764?v=1
It’s three pages. A sentence can take years.
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"All The Chords You Are" Originally Posted by Christian Miller
A7#9sus2
Am9
Am9/G
A#6sus2add#11addb9
A#6sus2b5addb2
A#6sus2b5addb9
B5add#5addb2add11/F#
B7b13b9sus4/A
B7b9sus4#5/A
BMb13b9sus4/A#
BMb9sus4#5/A#
Bsus4#5add5addb2/F#
Bsus4#5addb2
Bsus4#5addb9
CM#11/F#
CM#13/A#
CM#9/D#
CM11/F
CM13/A
CM7
CM7/B
CM7/E
CM7/G
CM7b5add12/F#
CM7b5add5/F#
CM9/D
CMb11sus4/F
CMb13/G#
CMb9/C#
C#mM#13b5
D13sus2sus4
D13sus4
D#+6addb2
D#+6addb9
D#6addb2addb13
D#6addb9addb13
Em#5add12
Em#5add5
Em#5add5add2/F#
Em7b13/D
Emadd2addb13/F#
EmMb13/D#
FM#11sus2
F#7#11b9sus4
F#7b9sus4b5
F#7sus4b5addb2
G13/F
G13b11sus4/F
G6add11
G6add4
G6add4add14/F#
G6add4add9
G6add4addb2
G6add4addb9
G6sus2sus4add3
G6sus4addb11
Gadd11add13
Gadd4add13
GM13/F#
GM13b11sus4/F#
GM7add4add6/F#
Gsus4add13addb11
G#+M#9
G#+M#9/G
G#Mb13#9
G#mMb11#5
G#mMb13b11
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Take that Monder! :-) Originally Posted by pauln
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There are no jazz, cowboy, rock bla bla bla chords.
There are only chords.
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Ben goes deep harmonic study of each chord in each SCALE ( that is..all chord types)
now you have to "think" in the function of the chord..
so for CMaj7 = Eb13b9#5 you wold have to make those notes C E G B reflect part of an altered Eb13 tonality..
ok..here is where knowledge of the Augmented scale and its chords can help ..the chords in C augmented scale
Cmaj Cmin Emaj Emin Abmaj Abmin (and every note in the aug scale is the root of an aug triad)
another chord found using C E G B = Abmaj7#5#9 .. so the Eb13 can be the V7 going to Imaj7 and using aug scale fragments can resolve to C Maj or min / Emaj or min type flavors and others...
adding in other harmonic devices (min 3rd cycles..triad pairs etc) you begin to "think" in several keys
does this take long to digest and apply to improvisational playing..of course it does.. your a musician..what else is there to do ..practice and compose
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Tbh I take a different message from it which is that after a while thinking of roots and functions and naming chords is clunky af
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I cannot imagine how all that information would be useful to me.
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It's useful for those who play all day with another neck. Originally Posted by Litterick
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