How to measure the bpm we are playing?

[Marlot]

Hi. Since I am a beginner I hope to don`t make a very obvious or silly question. For example I think I was playing at 120 bpm. How do I count this. I set the metronome to 120 and play 8 notes per each bar 4/4 or 4 notes per each bar 4/4? How would be the right 120 bpm . How do you count this normally?

[mr. beaumont]

Tap quarter notes and match it up with a metronome.

[citizenk74]

Hi. Since I am a beginner I hope to don`t make a very obvious or silly question. For example I think I was playing at 120 bpm. How do I count this. I set the metronome to 120 and play 8 notes per each bar 4/4 or 4 notes per each bar 4/4? How would be the right 120 bpm . How do you count this normally?

Mr. B has the skinny.

[pauln]

4/4 time means the quarter note takes the beat.
So in 4/4 time 120 BPM is two beats per second,
so two quarter notes per second, and 4 sec bars.
This is only the song's pace, not a playing speed.

A possible confusion is that in the Jazz world, the
BPM is also used to express how fast single notes
are played. In this case those single notes are set
as eighth notes. That means playing speed is just
standardized on eighth notes when someone says
"I play this at 120 BPM"; they are saying the note
speed is streaming at 4 notes per second, though
this is 2 beats per second, it's just notes vs beats.

[Marlot]

4/4 time means the quarter note takes the beat.
So in 4/4 time 120 BPM is two beats per second,
so two quarter notes per second, and 4 sec bars.
This is only the song's pace, not a playing speed.

A possible confusion is that in the Jazz world, the
BPM is also used to express how fast single notes
are played. In this case those single notes are set
as eighth notes. That means playing speed is just
standardized on eighth notes when someone says
"I play this at 120 BPM"; they are saying the note
speed is streaming at 4 notes per second, though
this is 2 beats per second, it's just notes vs beats.

So basically to play 120 i put muy metronome at 120 and enable eighteen instead of quarter. And match eighteen notes instead of quarter?

[pauln]

So basically to play 120 i put muy metronome at 120 and enable eighteen instead of quarter. And match eighteen notes instead of quarter?

Yes.
For a song 120 BPM, set the metronome to that and use the time signature to assign the beat to the right note duration, play as written.
But for practicing playing eighth note exercises, if the metronome is fancy then enable the eighth notes and match to those as you play.

[Marlot]

Yes.
For a song 120 BPM, set the metronome to that and use the time signature to assign the beat to the right note duration, play as written.
But for practicing playing eighth note exercises, if the metronome is fancy then enable the eighth notes and match to those as you play.

Thank you very much... My goal is to get at least 200 BPM. I Guess pros speed is 300? Whats the Max speed you can find? Just curiosity

[pauln]

Thank you very much... My goal is to get at least 200 BPM. I Guess pros speed is 300? Whats the Max speed you can find? Just curiosity

My experience concerns a few different kinds of maximum speeds:

Playing speeds required for the songs I perform
My top level of performance quality playing speed
My top level of mechanical quality playing speed
My ear, how fast I can musically hear what I play

I am most confident when my performance quality top speed exceeds my songs' requirements, my mechanical quality top speed exceeds my performance requirements, and my speed of hearing exceeds my mechanical requirements.

[ragman1]

I set the metronome to 120 and play 8 notes per each bar 4/4 or 4 notes per each bar 4/4?

It's 4 notes per bar. If you're playing in 4/4 then each tap of the metronome is one quarter beat. So it's 1 2 3 4 | 1 2 3 4 | 1 2 3 4 | etc.

[kris]

Sometimes I want to check the BPM tempo at which the soloist is playing on the CD - then I use the 'Transcriber' software.
There is always a rule of thumb - you have to find the reference points. If there is a piece in the 4/4 time signature you have to mark 4 quarter notes ... very simple - the computer finds the tempo BPM.
BPM (beats per minute).

[rpjazzguitar]

Time Guru is an app which has a tap tempo feature. You tap the button in time and it tells you the bpm.

And now, to twist a little bit:

Most people who sing Beegees' Stayin' Alive do it around 110.

That Sousa march, probably Stars and Stripes Forever, apparently cannot be sung at any tempo other than 120.

If there's a song that can't be sung except at around 80, please chime in.

[Marlot]

4/4 time means the quarter note takes the beat.
So in 4/4 time 120 BPM is two beats per second,
so two quarter notes per second, and 4 sec bars.
This is only the song's pace, not a playing speed.

A possible confusion is that in the Jazz world, the
BPM is also used to express how fast single notes
are played. In this case those single notes are set
as eighth notes. That means playing speed is just
standardized on eighth notes when someone says
"I play this at 120 BPM"; they are saying the note
speed is streaming at 4 notes per second, though
this is 2 beats per second, it's just notes vs beats.

Thank all for the kind replies. Now I see that in this post I was trying to ask about the note speed (bpm counting eighteen instead of quarters) that pauln described. what i was asking is what is a good speed according for this concept of measuring speed. my target is to get to 200, what would be a good speed? I mean for today standards what would be considered fast?

[ragman1]

Thank all for the kind replies. Now I see that in this post I was trying to ask about the note speed (bpm counting eighteen instead of quarters) that pauln described. what i was asking is what is a good speed according for this concept of measuring speed. my target is to get to 200, what would be a good speed? I mean for today standards what would be considered fast?

120 is medium. 80 - 90 is pretty slow although some tunes can get slower. Fast is maybe around 180- 220 and extreme goes up to 300.

It depends on the tune and it depends how fast you can play. Some tunes sound good played slower than their original version, others sound more exciting played faster. So it also depends how you want it to sound.

The simplest way is to listen to the original version of a tune and play it like that. That's the best way to find out the right speed.

HOT TIP: You need to find an actual tune and apply it to that, not try to do it all conceptually.

(bpm counting eighteen instead of quarters)

Sorry, but when you say things like this it really means you don't understand this stuff at all! You need to find a YouTube video and study about notes and their time-values.

[Marlot]

120 is medium. 80 - 90 is pretty slow although some tunes can get slower. Fast is maybe around 180- 220 and extreme goes up to 300.

It depends on the tune and it depends how fast you can play. Some tunes sound good played slower than their original version, others sound more exciting played faster. So it also depends how you want it to sound.

The simplest way is to listen to the original version of a tune and play it like that. That's the best way to find out the right speed.

HOT TIP: You need to find an actual tune and apply it to that, not try to do it all conceptually.



Sorry, but when you say things like this it really means you don't understand this stuff at all! You need to find a YouTube video and study about notes and their time-values.

if u read paul u will undertand what I am talking about. I am talking about speed of notes, not about a tempo. But as paul said, when somebody says i play this at 300 bpm, he means he plays 2 notes for each quarter beat. My question was what is a good speed? so u said 300 is extreme, it means people plays 2 notes per beat...seems very challenging... not in my league

[PatrickWD]

What is good speed is open to interpretation. Some pro players does not play fast at all. It's more about good note choices.

But some players try to play songs as fast as possible. Bpm is not everything though. You can play extremely fast at 80 bpm to if you play 16th note triples for example.


But if you want an example of high bpms: Here is Pasquale Grasso playing eightnotes at around 380 bpm:

[Marlot]

What is good speed is open to interpretation. Some pro players does not play fast at all. It's more about good note choices.

But some players try to play songs as fast as possible. Bpm is not everything though. You can play extremely fast at 80 bpm to if you play 16th note triples for example.


But if you want an example of high bpms: Here is Pasquale Grasso playing eightnotes at around 380 bpm:

Yes!! thank u for this. This is exactly what i was talking about. insane skills. but i think 380 eight notes is not the top? I mean is insane and inhuman but i guess heavy metal players or steve vai, john mclaughin can hit about 430 doing the same type of phrase of Grasso? what is the top speed u know?

[PatrickWD]

In jazz we are improvising over complex chord changes, so in jazz around 400 is often towards the upper range.

But if you want the fastest speeds regardless of music styles you should check out rock shredders like Michael Angelo Batio.
Doesen't sound good at all i my opinion, but in terms of speed it's impressive.

But often these players play 32th notes and high other note values in stead of at high bpms.

[Christian Miller]

Yes!! thank u for this. This is exactly what i was talking about. insane skills. but i think 380 eight notes is not the top? I mean is insane and inhuman but i guess heavy metal players or steve vai, john mclaughin can hit about 430 doing the same type of phrase of Grasso? what is the top speed u know?

There’s a difference between shredding scale patterns and arpeggios insanely fast and playing the more intricate lines involved in jazz.

i mean ask yourself what type of musical material does Vai or McLaughlin play at these very high speeds? It’s not really melodic material, more like decorative passage work. scale runs, ‘repeater’ licks, things like that.

In contrast to improvise jazz effectively you need to be an agile player with a flexible technique that allows you to play a wide variety of musical ideas at a given tempo. This is really hard on guitar, and if you don’t believe me, try it :-)

Legato technique allows fast double time jazz lines and many modern jazz players use it, Holdsworth for instance. If that’s not fast enough for you, I think you may need to cut down on the caffeine.

[Marlot]

In jazz we are improvising over complex chord changes, so in jazz around 400 is often towards the upper range.

But if you want the fastest speeds regardless of music styles you should check out rock shredders like Michael Angelo Batio.
Doesen't sound good at all i my opinion, but in terms of speed it's impressive.

But often these players play 32th notes and high other note values in stead of at high bpms.

yes exactly, i have heard about him, what is his speed? 450?

[Christian Miller]

yes exactly, i have heard about him, what is his speed? 450?

I don’t care

[Marlot]

I don’t care

i even didnt ask you, i asked the other guy about michaelangelo speed

[Christian Miller]

Sorry to be a dismissive, I see you are a beginner. I shouldn’t be so rude.

Shred guitar and jazz guitar are kind of two separate approaches to the instrument. Jazz guitarists can be technically very adept players but we do it to play musical ideas we like. We also improvise a great deal. sometimes tempos are very quick, which poses a different set of challenges to rock shredding.

Rock technique is more about the ‘wow factor’ - impressive for its own sake (there are elements of that in classical music too sometimes.) shred solos are very often composed in advance.

Re the tempos thing. Rock players tend to play slower tempos more subdivided. So while Pasquale plays eighth notes at 360, a rock player would play sixteenth notes at 180.

It’s the same physical speed, but the tempo is different (it feels different too.) When rock players play faster they subdivide more; maybe 16th triplets or 32nd notes.

So tempo doesn’t really tell you how fast a player is playing. I don’t really know what various players maximum speeds are and tbh I don’t find this a very interesting aspect of music. For instance I think Vai uses his technique to play more interesting musical ideas than MAB for example although MAB is probably faster in terms of raw speed.

hope that helps and sorry for being a d!ck.

[PatrickWD]

I don’t know either.

[PatrickWD]

Had some free time between two guitar students, so i took a quick listen to MAB playing fast. Found a video where MAB is playing 32nd notes at 135 bpm.

32nd notes = 8 notes per beat.

converted to a eight note tempo that would be 540 bpm.

But in my opinion it sounds more like a machine playing than a human. So what is the point?

[John A.]

Yes.
For a song 120 BPM, set the metronome to that and use the time signature to assign the beat to the right note duration, play as written.
But for practicing playing eighth note exercises, if the metronome is fancy then enable the eighth notes and match to those as you play.

I guess you can do that, but I think it makes more sense to practice playing 1/8 notes against a 1/4 beat, especially if you're practicing swingtime 1/8's.