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Originally Posted by kris
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04-07-2022 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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Originally Posted by j4zz
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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I'd rather ask, what sort of pop song would lend itself to this treatment best?
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Originally Posted by ragman1
But to humour you, just for example, a song that I slow down and try to make more interesting, is B.J. Thomas' Hooked on a Feeling. Another is Neil Sedaka's Breaking Up is Hard to do. I believe I have even heard him do a slow version of this.
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Ah! Thank you. But not to humour me, we need to know to answer your question.
I've just listened to BJ Thomas and Neil Sedaka. They're both pretty jumpy songs. My own immediate feeling is that, if you really must jazzify them (!) you'd have to slow them down considerably and make the harmonies a lot more subtle. That in turn would make them into ballads... and they just wouldn't be the same songs any more.
So - sorry - I wouldn't do it, personally. Not with those two examples. You probably ought to find a love song with an interesting middle 8.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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You might want to check out some of Dave Stryker’s ‘8-track’ albums - he has done versions of 1970s hits.
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Charlie Hunter did a similar thing with Steve Miller’s ‘Fly Like an Eagle’.
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Some of Stevie Wonder’s songs work well (as someone mentioned before, I think).
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the minute I named any, they'd be jumped on as not worthy.
I've no objection to pop, I remember Breaking Up very well! But changing them into jazz... not sure. You saw that Brad Mehldau vid, he hardly changed them at all. With good reason.
Apart from bebop-type instrumentals, most jazz songs are very idiosyncratic. You know, Paris in the rain and all that. Or relationship songs. I'd say why not listen to a heap of them, get the feel of the style, and then go back to your knowledge of pop to see what occurs?
Rather than the other way round. I think it would work a lot better.
By the way, were you going to sing them or play them as instrumentals?
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This one isn't a bad choice.
But I keep repeating, I don't think J4zz has any idea of the musicianship required to transform these songs into jazz tunes, I really don't.
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Another good tune that works:
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Too late!!
Except yours is live and we can see what he's doing...
See, that one's ideal for this. But, from what I remember, he hasn't really changed the harmonies. It's the style and feel that's different. Like Mehldau.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
I can name improvisers (almost) in his league, I also can name musicians covering (almost) such a wide style as he, but naming anyone who in both category would cause hard time...
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Just ask yourself "What would Donald Fagen do?"
Of course, the answer is "write his own much-hipper sh*t, not try to jazz up some dreck."
I'm just messin' with you... I really just wanted to post that question as a partly smart-a** and partly serious answer to the question. In other words, as another poster said, "play the hell out of it." That is exactly where most jazz standards came from. Many of the current standards were pretty treacly as played in the original shows from whence they came.
I agree with those who have advised that you need to do something really original, or it will just sound gimmicky. (Which is the sentiment that informs my "what would Don do" topline answer...) I almost always hate hearing "downtempo jazz" versions of pop tunes. I'll be listening to the tune and thinking how much better the original pop version was when I hear time-worn jazz traditions and stylistic devices from 50 years ago applied to a more modern tune. I agree that the older tunes (or tunes written as jazz tunes in the first place, like bebop, cool, and fusion) lend themselves much better to jazz reinterpretation because they are so much more melodic than most newer pop.
I heard the original version of Breakin Up as a kid and the downtempo re-release that came out 20 or 30 years later and I gotta say that the contrast between these discs really highlights what a killer musician and arranger Sedaka is. I really liked the downtempo version and I think that you (or, say, Herbie) could definitely turn it into a first-class jazz citizen... but if you are a beginner, then that's going to be punching above your weight a bit. I'm not saying don't do it. I'm saying that as your skill set and concept evolves it'll get easier. Meantime, go at it. It'll be a great learning experience. And keep learning from the masters - eventually your inner voice and your outer influences will meet in the middle somewhere...
One more thing: guitar poses its own challenges, so don't shy away from guitar arrangements that others have done. If there's a song you want to do, start hitting youtube for as many jazz guitar arrangements of it that you can find. There's no need to re-invent the wheel, especially when you are just starting out. Piece together the ideas you like (and can play) from different sources, and evolve towards more sophisticated approaches as you progress.
$0.02,
SJLast edited by starjasmine; 04-08-2022 at 10:37 AM.
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Originally Posted by starjasmine
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To start working on jazz version of pop music tunes you need knowledge, experience, a good ear and good taste ... and perseverance.
I wish it to everyone.
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Even Joe Pass had a go at it once.
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I like a lot Scof/s version on Rolling-Stones's tune:
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Originally Posted by grahambop
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Originally Posted by j4zz
There are only two things that matter:
1) what sort of pop song are we talking about, and
2) what sort of jazz sound are we wanting.
That's all. You can, with your background, pick out a certain song. That's easy enough but then the question is whether you can hear in your head how you want it to sound. Smooth, like Dave Stryker? Or angular and outside like Scofield's stuff? Or what?
Where will you start to answer that? As I said before, it's not just a question of playing some 'jazzy' chords instead of the usual ones, it's a question of the whole feel and delivery of the new version.
You've asked a good but difficult question. Please see that the answer is complex and isn't a 'just do this' affair.
You may be getting started in jazz but you're certainly not getting started in pop music so it's a question of studying the jazz alternatives, right? That's what you have to do.
You'll know you're making progress when you have a clear idea in your head of how you want it to sound.
Anyway, best of luck. Go to it!
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The musician asks and looks for answers from different people-musicians.Everyone wants to expand their knowledge and possibly get motivation to act.The rest are purely technical matters.
Everything is clear to me.
There is no need to pretend to be an expert on all topics. I don't know experts on this topic at all.Last edited by kris; 04-08-2022 at 06:29 AM.
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