Jazz Blues 1 and 2 - plus more. From Jazz Guitar Online.

**Rob MacKillop** · 11-03-2021, 05:10 AM

When Reg was talking about triplets, I assumed he was talking about single-line soloing. But I might be wrong.

There are many schools of right-hand strumming, some of them near-violently opposed to others. Best not open that can of worms too early on, perhaps.

**Liarspoker** · 11-03-2021, 05:39 AM

Singing thirds is a tad more difficult but you're still singing a I IV V albeit a major third higher.

The thirds in a 3 chord 12 bar in Bb are D, G, A which is the same as singing the roots but a third higher.

You probably know this already but it might others if they decide to sing 3rds.

Edit. I really got the sound of thirds in my ear by transcribing the main melody to Santorini by Yani from his Live at the Acropolis album. Such a great album

**Liarspoker** · 11-03-2021, 12:36 PM

Just thinking, maybe it would be nice to have a goal of recording a chorus or two (or four) in January?

This way we have something to aim for as a group as we work through the course.

Thoughts?

**Donplaysguitar** · 11-03-2021, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop

When Reg was talking about triplets, I assumed he was talking about single-line soloing. But I might be wrong.

There are many schools of right-hand strumming, some of them near-violently opposed to others. Best not open that can of worms too early on, perhaps.

I took it in context of the comping.

One could just play along with Freddie Green recordings for a bit.

**Donplaysguitar** · 11-03-2021, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by Liarspoker

Just thinking, maybe it would be nice to have a goal of recording a chorus or two (or four) in January?

This way we have something to aim for as a group as we work through the course.

Thoughts?

Which chapter/page? How about the following?:

Pages 38 and 40 by end of November
Pages 47 and 48 by New Years

**Liarspoker** · 11-03-2021, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by Donplaysguitar

Which chapter/page? How about the following?:

Pages 38 and 40 by end of November
Pages 47 and 48 by New Years

I was thinking that the beauty of it is that everyone can record their own version so someone can comp example 2 and improv over it with the minor pentatonic while another person who has more experience with this could comp example 6 and improv with different scales over the changes. Others might just like to comp.

I'm open to any suggestions though.

**losaltosjoe** · 11-03-2021, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by digger

I agree Joe. I've been trying and failing, too :-) A lot of what I've read over the years has suggested leaving out the up-stroke until one is really confident - I think Jimmy Raniolo ( who was mentioned earlier in the thread) said this - but I apologise if he didn't. Certainly in several of the gypsy jazz books and videos I have on rhythm this is suggested. So for a long time I've avoided the up stroke. I know this thread isn't about gypsy jazz, but the bit that always flummoxed me was the idea that the up stroke had to be quick, irrespective of the tempo. Which always foxed me, as I like my right hand going up and down in rhythm... Hah. I've probably got this all wrong, anyway. On the plus side, all this right hand practice now means that our left hands (*) are getting extra practice without us realising!

Thanks Derek! Glad to know that I'm not alone. I've seen both Vinny Raniolo and Frank Vignola mention the up-stroke but I am going to leave it alone for now and move on. Cheers.

**losaltosjoe** · 11-03-2021, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop

There are many schools of right-hand strumming, some of them near-violently opposed to others. Best not open that can of worms too early on, perhaps.

Indeed Rob! I'll happily move on. Cheers.

**AlsoRan** · 11-03-2021, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by fep

Page 16, a different style each chorus. (Stayed with the chapter on the 1st chorus and then tried to embellish).

Also, guess what? I just bought volume 2 and it has (as you probably already know) instruction on walking basslines that can be used with all the various progressions. Maybe I will be able to throw in a walking bass like you did.

This course has a lot of "crossover" potential into other types of music genres and subgenres.

So far, I am locked in...

**fep** · 11-04-2021, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by Liarspoker

Just thinking, maybe it would be nice to have a goal of recording a chorus or two (or four) in January?

This way we have something to aim for as a group as we work through the course.

Thoughts?

I would encourage folks to post videos perhaps every week or at least record yourself even if you don't post.

I could blow through this book in a day but I wouldn't get much out of it. Recording forces me to give the material and the playing of the material much more attention and enables self critique as painful as that may be. I sound awfully good or so I think, that is until I hear the recorded playback.

Without playing in front of an instructor it's next best thing, or maybe it's better than that.

**Donplaysguitar** · 11-04-2021, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by fep

I would encourage folks to post videos perhaps every week or at least record yourself even if you don't post.

I could blow through this book in a day but I wouldn't get much out of it. Recording forces me to give the material and the playing of the material much more attention and enables self critique as painful as that may be. I sound awfully good or so I think, that is until I hear the recorded playback.

Without playing in front of an instructor it's next best thing, or maybe it's better than that.

I agree on the focus side of your post. Having to record and post videos for online guitar classes proved that to me in spades. Pressure brings out the best in all of us.

But - such online classes take a lot of one's time. Not everybody has the same amount of available time, especially for an informal "fun" study group. My two cents is that as long as everyone is practicing, making progress, and posting when they can - it's worth their while.

**digger** · 11-04-2021, 12:28 PM

Yes, time is tight this month - I'm having a bash at NaNoWriMo... Neverthless my focus on singing the root / 3rds / 7ths as suggested on page 17 is proving great fun and very insightful. By adding the 5th into the mix it's very easy to find interesting - but simple - lines that cut across the chords.

For example, in F that F7 / D7 / Gm7 / C7 sequence can have a line such as F F# F E laid over those respective chords. There are infinite examples of this. Learning to sing these (really poorly!) now will I'm sure have great benefits downstream.

Derek

**Jona** · 11-04-2021, 04:03 PM

Forgotten I had a YouTube account! Had a go at recording and its a bit of a faff, but got there in the end. I've been using iReal Pro, not come across it before, it was recommended by a friend and seems a really good practice tool. As for the playing, video evidence is quite brutal isn't it? Makes me realise just how sloppy my timing is. Much room for improvement, and as for my Bb key chord changes, there's a way to go before any more publishing takes place! I've been trying to discipline my thumb to stay behind the neck but it keeps creeping around when playing these shell voicings. But, getting somewhere gradually and, most importantly, I'm enjoying the process.

**patchr** · 11-04-2021, 04:32 PM

Okay 3 recordings of page 9 in C and F. Played on my Martin 00015.

1st is with a pick. This feels the least comfortable to me. Having trouble muting the B & E strings properly.

2nd is hybrid picking and 3rd is fingers only.

Pick

Hybrid

Fingers

This was recorded via the voice memos app on my iPhone.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**Liarspoker** · 11-04-2021, 06:42 PM

All these posts of you guys playing are great.

I just did this one before bedtime.

F minor blues scale over F7, Bb minor blues over Bb7 and C minor blues over C7.

Plenty of room for improvement.

Would love to hear what you guys think of the production too ie how can I improve my recording.

Night night

**Donplaysguitar** · 11-04-2021, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by Liarspoker

All these posts of you guys playing are great.

I just did this one before bedtime.

F minor blues scale over F7, Bb minor blues over Bb7 and C minor blues over C7.

Plenty of room for improvement.

Would love to hear what you guys think of the production too ie how can I improve my recording.

Night night

Nice playing and sound is really good.

preferences on recording?
maybe a little more panning, maybe not.
maybe drop the volume of the rhythm guitar a tad.

just some ideas for consideration though, sounds good!

**Rob MacKillop** · 11-04-2021, 07:50 PM

Well done everyone so far, some good contributions there. Without pointing fingers, some of the chord work is good for the most part, but slightly sloppy in one or two places. Keeping focussed mentally and physically is something that needs worked at. And sometimes some play very tight but too mechanically. More listening to our own recordings in comparison with good examples of comping would be worthwhile.

But the good news is that everyone so far is managing it, and the results are not bad at all. We will refine things over time, of course, so keep at it, and keep trying to improve.

I do note, though, that everyone is doing four to the bar swing style. If you are working with the backing track I think you might also experiment with doing fewer hits, maybe go through the sequence six different ways: just beat 1; just beat 2; just beat 3; just beat 4; beats 1 and 3; beats 2 and 4; and maybe another time of just hitting any beat or off beat, just experiment.

**Liarspoker** · 11-05-2021, 03:22 AM

Originally Posted by Donplaysguitar

Nice playing and sound is really good.

preferences on recording?
maybe a little more panning, maybe not.
maybe drop the volume of the rhythm guitar a tad.

just some ideas for consideration though, sounds good!

Thanks Don.

A problem that I often have is that a mix sounds great in my headphones and monitors but when I save it and upload it to YouTube the mix changes. Some things are usually a little louder, others a little softer. It's frustrating

Anyhow it's a great course. Being pentatonic based really helps but now it's time to expand my wings.

**Donplaysguitar** · 11-05-2021, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by Liarspoker

Thanks Don.

A problem that I often have is that a mix sounds great in my headphones and monitors but when I save it and upload it to YouTube the mix changes. Some things are usually a little louder, others a little softer. It's frustrating

Anyhow it's a great course. Being pentatonic based really helps but now it's time to expand my wings.

I hear ya.

I have learned a few things about Mixing but almost nothing about Mastering, which helps normalize a recording for multiple playback scenarios/devices? What do I know...

On the Blues course I've been playing around with the exercises using the Major Blues Scale. I haven't spent much time with that prior to now, although it's a familiar sound.

Cheers.

**fep** · 11-05-2021, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by Liarspoker

Thanks Don.

A problem that I often have is that a mix sounds great in my headphones and monitors but when I save it and upload it to YouTube the mix changes. Some things are usually a little louder, others a little softer. It's frustrating

Anyhow it's a great course. Being pentatonic based really helps but now it's time to expand my wings.

Your mix sounds fine to me.

It sounds like you have a pretty aggressive attack with your picking and I prefer a softer attack but that is entirely a style thing and is subjective. And like you said, you like the sound of your initial recording. Strange that the sound would change once youtube processed it.

Have you done a back-to-back comparison listening back to your DAW vs. YouTube in the same session? If so, can you describe what is different? Note that when doing A-B comparisons you need to "level match" which just means you need to adjust the volumes so they sound like they have the same loudness.

One thing I can see is that your recording was a little bit too hot for youtube and they normalized it by -1.7db. I don't let that happen on my recordings. (If you right-click your video and select "stats for nerds" and then look at the 4th line (volume/normalized) you can see your the volume of your video was reduced by -1.7db. You can avoid this if you keep your LUFS at -15 or higher (you may want to look up LUFS). Still, I don't think YouTube normalizing your video by -1.7db should do much more than change the volume of the audio which you can compensate for by adjusting your playback volume. In Reaper there are a couple of ways to see Lufs, what DAW are you using? Generally, you put a volume plugin followed by a LUFS meter in your Master channel and adjust volume with the volume plugin until your LUFS are where you want them.

**digger** · 11-05-2021, 10:05 AM

I jumped ahead to chapter two and had a go at the exercise on page 23/24:

First chorus: Bb minor pentatonic all the way through
Second chorus: (trying to do the following) The appropriate minor pentatonic for each chord. Alas, I couldn't get my brain in gear fast enough to work out what scale I should be playing, where I'd find it, and to also come up some nice joined-up phrases. This is essentially my issue with jazz in a nutshell! I did try and address the Edim best I could (pretty much the root note only). Ignored the last four chords as they changed too quickly for me to change scales so I stuck with the minor pentatonic...
Third chorus: using the Bb minor pentatonic on the iV chord only, and the rest of the time adhering to the chorus 2 ideas

I struggled with all of this because of the reasons mentioned above. I think the exercise uncovers a lot of areas of focus.

By the way I also suffer with the mix issues - I often get a lovely mix in headphones but it sounds horrible on a phone or a laptop. Get it nice on a phone/laptop and it sounds horrible in headphones...

Cheers
Derek

**fep** · 11-05-2021, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by digger

By the way I also suffer with the mix issues - I often get a lovely mix in headphones but it sounds horrible on a phone or a laptop. Get it nice on a phone/laptop and it sounds horrible in headphones...

Cheers
Derek

Okay, now something I can bite into. First of all phone speakers and the laptop speakers I've experienced suck. Do you really want to mix for those? I just don't worry about it you can't make a mix sound good on 1/8" woofers.

But if you want to try (like I said I don't) you can set up an eq that simulates crappy speakers (studios have midrangey speakers to do just that).

Put an EQ in your master track that looks like below. Note that you only use that eq as a temporary simulation of a cheap speaker, important to turn it off when you render your track.

**digger** · 11-05-2021, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by fep

First of all phone speakers and the laptop speakers I've experienced suck. Do you really want to mix for those?

I did a non-scientific survey last summer and asked many of the people who were likely to look at one of my videos what platform they used. Almost all said a phone without headphones.

Were I a recording artist I might not worry - but if most people are listening on crappy devices, then I guess we have to at least consider making our music sound as best as we can on those devices.

Derek

**fep** · 11-05-2021, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by digger

I did a non-scientific survey last summer and asked many of the people who were likely to look at one of my videos what platform they used. Almost all said a phone without headphones.

Were I a recording artist I might not worry - but if most people are listening on crappy devices, then I guess we have to at least consider making our music sound as best as we can on those devices.

Derek

One thing, two tracks of electric guitar already is pretty much in the mid-range, add bass and drums and then you have much more highs and lows that don't translate to crap speakers so well. If you want to go down the path of mixing for laptop and phone speakers, check this out: