Some problems with blues

[mhch]

Ah ! You listened to Duet2, this is Duet1 : Box

Well the backtrack itself isn't in time, the melody isn't either and too complicated, despite what has been suggested.

One step at a time is the only road to success ... proper backtrack, simple melody with silence, a bit more complex melody but not too much melody, still with silence (or phrases to say it otherwise), then when all of this is in time, then add a few rushed notes (16th).

But as I already said, I doubt this thread will lead to anything. Reg quickly understood it.

[Lionelsax]

Well the backtrack itself isn't in time, the melody isn't either and too complicated, despite what has been suggested.

One step at a time is the only road to success ... proper backtrack, simple melody with silence, a bit more complex melody but not too much melody, still with silence (or phrases to say it otherwise), then when all of this is in time, then add a few rushed notes (16th).

But as I already said, I doubt this thread will lead to anything. Reg quickly understood it.

Yes, he is a legend, he understands facts before they happen.

[Lionelsax]

He is considered one of the biggest resources in a forum populated by gigging jazz musicians ... and if anyone has that ability chances are it's him

I like his tutorials.

[ragman1]

Ah ! You listened to Duet2, this is Duet1 : Box

Obviously the same answer. Which you must hear yourself, surely? Anyway, shouldn't #2 be better than #1?

Do Autumn Leaves with Bb maj and G harmonic minor. Better still, play it in Em because Gm is not a good key for guitar. If you can't play something simple like that, how will you ever do clever bebop stuff? Don't deceive yourself and waste time.

You can ask who you want but no one, repeat no one, will make you play better, only you. All the possible advice has been given here already. There's no secret formula that only special people know, it's all just basic music knowledge.

[mhch]

Il n'est pire sourd qui ne veut entendre ... pourquoi parler davantage

[ragman1]

Ce n'est pas encore entièrement prouvé.

[christianm77]

And yes, you're right, I'm not sure, my left hand spends more times to correct wrong notes than playing.
About playing modal on a tonal tune, it is not my thing, I used to do it years ago, it sounds flat (not in a musical meaning) and too commercial.
I want to play long phrases like in be bop, not few 8th notes then a long note each 2 or 4 measures.
I know what a structure is, maybe I want to run before learning walking but I'm able to walk yet.
As you understood, I'm making my first running steps, I don't want to stop even if I fall down.

And yes, you're absolutely right about the range !!!
I'm not used to playing chorus and head... I'm too bad.

I enjoyed your last video. Sounding very musical.

I would say - pay attention to upbeat placement. This should be consistent.

Try playing the melody without backing and see how it feels to comp or clap along. Notice where it goes wrong.

Listen and play, listen and play, listen and play. Listen to people who CAN play and copy what they do, just a few bars a day is fine.

Your aim is to get a strong enough aural impression of where it should be that you are at least aware of where the technique fails...

[AlsoRan]

I have to say to LionelSax that I admired his inner confidence to post his playing and let others comment. A lot of people just are not secure enough in themselves to do it. But, you have the instestinal fortitude to take the slings and arrows.

That says a lot about you and I hope you were able to learn something that can propel you to the next level that you seek on the guitar - or at least give you some insight so that you can create a good plan.

As we say in some parts of the USA, "Props to you, sir!"

[Lionelsax]

Obviously the same answer. Which you must hear yourself, surely? Anyway, shouldn't #2 be better than #1?

Do Autumn Leaves with Bb maj and G harmonic minor. Better still, play it in Em because Gm is not a good key for guitar. If you can't play something simple like that, how will you ever do clever bebop stuff? Don't deceive yourself and waste time.

You can ask who you want but no one, repeat no one, will make you play better, only you. All the possible advice has been given here already. There's no secret formula that only special people know, it's all just basic music knowledge.

Now I understand why what I play sounds complicated for you.

Il n'est pire sourd qui ne veut entendre ... pourquoi parler davantage

I don't need a parrot.

I enjoyed your last video. Sounding very musical.

I would say - pay attention to upbeat placement. This should be consistent.

Try playing the melody without backing and see how it feels to comp or clap along. Notice where it goes wrong.

Listen and play, listen and play, listen and play. Listen to people who CAN play and copy what they do, just a few bars a day is fine.

Your aim is to get a strong enough aural impression of where it should be that you are at least aware of where the technique fails...

Thanks very much, thanks for listening.

I have to say to LionelSax that I admired his inner confidence to post his playing and let others comment. A lot of people just are not secure enough in themselves to do it. But, you have the instestinal fortitude to take the slings and arrows.

That says a lot about you and I hope you were able to learn something that can propel you to the next level that you seek on the guitar - or at least give you some insight so that you can create a good plan.

As we say in some parts of the USA, "Props to you, sir!"

I've got a French quote from George Patton.

"Quand on fait quelque chose, on provoque des critiques chez trois catégories de personnes : 1) celles qui font la même chose ; 2) celles qui font le contraire ; 3) et surtout celles qui ne font rien."

No confidence is needed, I just share what I do, some listen to what I do, some just repeat like parrots what they read about it, some try to help me but don't really understand, others show me what I'm looking for and I really appreciate.
So nobody can listen without prejudice... Well it's just a forum.

I understand it's hard for a lot of people to hear a standard, that's been played for nine minutes with a metronome on 2 & 4 without destroying the form.
Nobody listened to it entirely (it's a waste of time maybe).
Nobody understood I was playing bop phrases or kind of on some recordings.

OK, not in time, I assume it, I'm not making an album, it's a recording.

Well... The most important thing is that I understand what I do, if some people can't...

It makes me laugh, nothing else.

I wish someone worked the way I do but I'm pretty sure nobody does or just a few people.

I'm sorry if I don't belong to a team, I know what I do, I've got my own opinion about it, I think by myself, I'm not a sarcastic parrot.

I really thank the few people who really listened to what I do.

For the other ones, stay like you are, don't listen carefully, keep your prejudices, act like parrot if you want, it's the way you are, it's fine, internet gives you a life.

[AlsoRan]

Translating your French quote:

"When we do something, we provoke criticism in three categories of people: 1) those who do the same thing; 2) those who do the opposite; 3) and especially those which do nothing."

That's a good one...

[Lionelsax]

Here's something. It's not supposed to be depressing but I suppose it is :-)

A friendly answer to Alfred.

[Lionelsax]

For those who love listening to short music, shorter than a pop song.
This is the same thing modified by Audacity.
You will say... We don't feel the articulation...
Box

[ragman1]

Lionel -

Salut!

Well, it wasn't bad. Audacity can be useful :-)

No, it doesn't sound complicated to me, that's standard jazz blues playing at a fairly high level IF you know what you're doing and how to do it. I know you're doing it but I don't know how much you understand the ideas behind it. Maybe you do, I don't know.

I notice you were swaying in the video. That's a very good sign; the music is in you.

See, I think we've come full circle in a way. Being here has maybe inspired you to practice more carefully and it's showing in the music. It's still just the timing and the content. I think the two go together. Confidence in the content will help the timing. Jazz stuff is difficult!!!

Here... I don't bring this out very often but this is Stella speeded up with Audacity in 2009. I can do this stuff but these days I prefer my experimental things, I like it. 'Blues For Lionel' was abstract and experimental. Or maybe just mental, I don't know :-)

I wasn't suggesting Autumn Leaves because I think you're a beginner or ignorant of jazz - you're obviously not - but because it really is beneficial to play simple stuff really well. But too many people want the success without the work. You know, they just want to be 'cool' but don't realise what it takes to do it in real terms. They're impatient, not that I blame them.

Like I said before, no one can help you really, you just need to keep at it. None of it is easy.

How did you learn such good English, by the way?

[ragman1]

And I forgot -

No team and no parrot. YES!

[ragman1]

While I was waiting, I thought I'd just try something in Gm for Autumn Leaves. It's quite long but it just shows how it's fairly easy to push out lines using only a few ideas. Well, basically two and some subs. Sounds like good enough music to me, I don't know about you. I'm happy with it anyway.

[Lionelsax]

Lionel -

Salut!

Well, it wasn't bad. Audacity can be useful :-)

No, it doesn't sound complicated to me, that's standard jazz blues playing at a fairly high level IF you know what you're doing and how to do it. I know you're doing it but I don't know how much you understand the ideas behind it. Maybe you do, I don't know.

I notice you were swaying in the video. That's a very good sign; the music is in you.

See, I think we've come full circle in a way. Being here has maybe inspired you to practice more carefully and it's showing in the music. It's still just the timing and the content. I think the two go together. Confidence in the content will help the timing. Jazz stuff is difficult!!!

Here... I don't bring this out very often but this is Stella speeded up with Audacity in 2009. I can do this stuff but these days I prefer my experimental things, I like it. 'Blues For Lionel' was abstract and experimental. Or maybe just mental, I don't know :-)

I wasn't suggesting Autumn Leaves because I think you're a beginner or ignorant of jazz - you're obviously not - but because it really is beneficial to play simple stuff really well. But too many people want the success without the work. You know, they just want to be 'cool' but don't realise what it takes to do it in real terms. They're impatient, not that I blame them.

Like I said before, no one can help you really, you just need to keep at it. None of it is easy.

How did you learn such good English, by the way?

Thanks, I only say and play what I understand, that's my answer.

The saxophone is not a combination of tricks and shapes like the guitar, you've got to understand what you play.

My English is not so good, I'm French from a Spanish family, my parents are used to speaking and understanding three languages, their native language (Valencian), Castilian and French.
So I've always been aware that there were several languages in the World, it's the way I have been brought up.
When I understood that British were British anywhere they were and the other ones were just foreigners (some French are like these British too) so I figured out I had to be understood.
I learnt it at school, that's all.

[ragman1]

I only say and play what I understand, that's my answer.

We all do that, everybody does that, it's all we can do. But it hopefully increases with time.

British were British anywhere

Heh heh, quite so :-)

You're lucky to have so many influences. I had an army family so I spent most of life abroad in other countries and cultures. So when I got back here I wasn't fooled. Imperialism isn't dead. Mind you, bureaucracy is still alive and well in France too. But the internet has made quite a difference.

The saxophone is not a combination of tricks and shapes like the guitar, you've got to understand what you play.

Oh, that applies to the guitar too, or any other instrument. You have to know the theory behind what you're doing. But It's true that guitar can be played with shapes and tricks, in fact it makes it easier and produces better guitar music for jazz. I used to play the trumpet, by the way, so I know what you're saying. But I could never play a piano, I can't coordinate the two hands.

[73Fender]

I think you have some nice licks going.. so congrats on that. It is very hard to carry on with an entire tune with no band or backing track etc.. at least for me.

Your post resulted in some excellent input from other users that will help me and probably others so thanks for that!

Good luck.

[BillyHell]

I'm going to give you a great song to pick with. Miles and Hooker together and it's awesome I was just out back playing to this 10 minutes ago...

[Jonah]

I understand the issue... and it can be good excercise - I mean trying to improve it.

But in many cases - if you play alone it actually does not matter.

Even more --- maybe it is better to let it go as it goes, not trying to put restrictions.

If you play alone you have only yourself for reference...

If we play with others - or if someone drops a bit in strictly rythmically/metrically arranged tune - then it is a problem to be solved (I remember i saw a vid of ' Fly Me to The Moon' 4 for the bar walking arrangement where a guy suddenly dropped 4th beat in one place and did not notice it. Of course it is a problem that should learnt and solved (to hear a pulse not of every beat but of every 4 or 8 or 16 (or 12 bars).

But if you improvise lines and play a sort of shifted accents, re-grouping, opolymeter things... i guess it is no peoblem if you lose 'backing 4/4' track.... you just have to appoint where the next 1st beat will be to get on track when you need it.


Of course unless you have a particular goal to develope that skill in particular.

I remember I also had a problem with blues when alone playing lines switching to 16 bars...

[Lionelsax]

Thanks for your messages, I post another thing.

[ragman1]

It's a miracle, you're cured!

[Lionelsax]

Something with a lot of clichés !

[ragman1]

Not enough clichés, actually. Just learn simple bluesy phrases and licks. You don't know your simple notes well enough. Probably you don't listen to enough of it. When you've got them then you can embellish them. They're not difficult.

[Lionelsax]

Not enough clichés, actually. Just learn simple bluesy phrases and licks. You don't know your simple notes well enough. Probably you don't listen to enough of it. When you've got them then you can embellish them. They're not difficult.

I am sorry, but I really feel you're just a guitarist. You're the best and you just talk.

Stop talking and play for real without repeating the same scale all over something.