Major scale fingerings

[ragman1]

discomfort as in difficult, or discomfort as in pain?

Any kind, I should imagine

[ragman1]

I love this quote, but for beginners I think it's hard to use it because everything will be difficult.

Difficult isn't the same as discomfort. If something's unfamiliar then we say it's difficult. Discomfort is either physical pain or some sort of emotional feeling which may be personal. Either way I shouldn't think it's worth suffering it.

[ronjazz]

Are these scale fingerings valuable for improvisation? Or are they really for practicing?

Leavitt's fingering's are really designed for sight-reading in the pit or studio. That's where stretch fingerings really are valuable. For improv, your own style as it develops will force you into a technique that allows you to play what you hear. The various scale methods are for practice, to build coordination, speed and endurance, to answer your question more directly. Improv, as Django showed us, doesn't depend on fingerings.

[Patlotch]

Leavitt's fingering's are really designed for sight-reading in the pit or studio. That's where stretch fingerings really are valuable. For improv, your own style as it develops will force you into a technique that allows you to play what you hear. The various scale methods are for practice, to build coordination, speed and endurance, to answer your question more directly. Improv, as Django showed us, doesn't depend on fingerings.

Yes. I first learned the scales in 7 positions. It's pretty much like Leavitt and and classical guitar fingerings, with a few shades according to the methods. Then the scales on a string, two strings with 3 or 4 notes, which then allow to connect the scales in position

in the technique I currently use, starting from intervals and forms of chords, hand shifts are mandatory and fingerings always different. The positions, and with, the knowledge of all the notes on the fingerboard, were certainly a step, but now I no longer think about it

this is related to improvisation, not reading, which assumes not to look at the fingerboard when moving in length with hand shifts, like a pianist on the keyboard

[Tom Karol]

I mostly but not exclusively use these 4:

[rintincop]

I prefer shapes that are small and easy to use, generally starting on finger 2 or 4 and can be linked together via shifting.

I agree. I have hand problems and need to avoid injury. Where can one see the scale laid out in small easy shapes?

[rintincop]

I can manage these.

I have extensively used the two positions that start on the 2 finger on the root (Bb and G).
What is the advantage of the positions that start on the 4th finger?

I mostly but not exclusively use these 4:

[Patlotch]

LEFT HAND EXTENSIONS
it seems that many accept the idea that hand movements are preferable to extensions for single notes. Right. There are cases where they are nevertheless necessary when playing in intervals (Van Eps, Wyble), and in any case unavoidable for chords. In the simple drop2 serie on middle set strings ADGB, the first inversion of CMaj7, on the third, ECBG, is played on 5 frets with an extension ci for the half tone


similarly the second inversion of Dm7, FCDA asks for an extension ma for the whole FC 5th. The tendency may be to replace these chords with the 9th tonic-free Em7 or FMaj7


it is sometimes a pity not to play the minor and major seconds in the chords, these dissonances one of their key features (essential characteristic). Without these intervals Monk's music would not exist

extensions are even more necessary in triads and seven chords & inversions in closed position ("piano chords") a la Johnny Smith

in short, without the extensions between fingers of the left hand, we lose essential colors of music in general

whether you work them in scales or chords doesn't matter, but you have to prepare the muscles and tendons. Affirming (Joe Pass?) that what hurts is to be ruled out, the beginner abandons his guitar on the first day, or as soon as he has blisters on his fingers

[Tom Karol]

I can manage these.

I have extensively used the two positions that start on the 2 finger on the root (Bb and G).
What is the advantage of the positions that start on the 4th finger?

1) I think you mean Bb and Eb, not Bb and G, yes?
2) But I actually use the other two (C and F, assuming 5th position) even more.
I think it's because (many of) the chords (and arpeggios of them) diatonic to the key fall right under your fingers.

[Patlotch]

What is the advantage of the positions that start on the 4th finger?

I don't know if we can talk about a position starting with the fourth finger. The 7 positions are notes slots on the fingerboard without moving the hand. If you play them completely, ascending, all start with the first finger, starting on any degree from I to VII (modes). There are only 3 positions having the tonic on the E string: in C, fret V, C 4th finger; fret VII, C second finger, fret VIII, C first finger. Their avantage is to have in one position all possible scales in all 12 tonalities. Their drawbacks are multiple

[neatomic]

the "advantage" is you can make music with any finger on any fret in any key!!!

that's exploring the guitar fretboard as good as it gets!!

then you have to harmonize that!! haha

oh dread

cheers

[Reg]

Hey tim h

So fingerings are just the first step, right. Your trying to learn how to perform on the guitar.

The Guitar is a 12 fret 6 string repeating pattern. All the positions and fingerings are again just beginner steps... eventually the fingering becomes a 12 fret pattern that repeats and transposes as you need.

Any system will work... you just need to choose one, (or 2 or 3). and get it together, finish the organization.

Eventually... you'll use them all all. Different fingerings help with other problems when playing the guitar.

Articulations, feel etc... The only knock I have with caged.... most tend to stare at the fretboard when playing.

If your going to play Jazz... your going to need fingerings that work with a lot of possibilities. Eventually... you'll be able to play and use any fingering.

The point of organizing fingerings is to be able to play. I'm a pro, have been for way to long. Part of performing for me has always been sight reading and entertaining... being in the audience's world, not just mine.
Anyway... if you need to think about fingerings and where on the neck to play... that's going to get in the way of playing. Try and have your fingering become internal, Natural and effortless to use. the more they work with your hands etc... and are logical etc... generally the better the results.

The other detail that will come up when you become a better player... You want to play the guitar, you don't want to have the guitar or fretboard... playing You. Fingerings can do that.

[MarkRhodes]

What is the advantage of the positions that start on the 4th finger?

I learned a few of those from Jimmy Bruno. (They're in his book Six Essential Fingerings for the Jazz Guitarist.)
Outside of just learning different ways to play scales, it is great to know arpeggio fingerings that start on the fourth finger. This often allows single-notes on three adjacent strings, which simplifies picking. Steve Crowell teaches four arpeggios starting on the third or fourth finger within each of seven scale positions.

For example, if you're in the first position of F major (-playing the low F with the index on the low E at the first fret) then you have the Am7 Dm7 Gm7 and C7 arps starting at the fifth fret on consecutive strings. Each arp begins with a sweep across 3 strings (-if you want). This is the iii vi ii V7 sequence. If you go to the next position, G (Dorian) you have the Bb major, Em7b5, Am7 and Dm7 arps starting on the third or fourth finger. This sequence is IV vii iii vi (This iii and vi are an octave higher than the iii and vi in position 1.) This is a great way to link arpeggios with scales. That is, if you ascend the arpeggio sequence and descend the scale sequence from which they derive, you feel more at home with both the arps and the scale.

In addition, each of the four arps has a Tonic or Dominant function. (The wild card is the vi chord, which is neutral and can go with either tonic or dominant sounds depending on how you use it.)

[Patlotch]

So fingerings are just the first step, right...

exactly. When I took the 8 strings last year, I found myself as a beginner. On the strings of F# and B* I did not know the notes. 20 years ago, my 7 strings were tuned in A, an octave under the 5th. With the tuning in fourth, the scales and intervals were the same as on the 6 strings. So I started by playing some scales in all positions on the 4 botom strings, and within a few weeks, it was set

* in reality I tune the whole guitar a whole tone lower: EADGCFAD

a disadvantage of the fingerings in position is the lack of homogeneity of the sound, which we get only in set of 2 or 3 strings. This is especially the case in the bass (bassists play more in the length of the fretboard), and in the case of comping bass/chords or solo with bass, one is obliged to move the left hand

over time, we unconsciously use fragments of scale sings of 3 to 5 notes on 2 or 3 strings and move the hand. It's better for sound

[Reg]

Yea, mark... I like using positions that have as one option, 4th finger reference or root and 1st finger as relative functional sub. root.
Ex. Cma7 in 5th position.
You naturally have access to the relative Ami7. So you can have that Maj and relative Min functional relationship going on... Cmaj licks with Amin licks (pentatonics).

Basically very natural access to one the the standard improv organizational approach or device... Call and answer or
Call and response, Theme and Variation... Anyway the use of this positional playing Approach or Technique helps create natural use of these improv devices for soloing or playing in general.

Or Cmin7 Dorian and A-7b5 Locrian. (Your using Bbma fingering). There are so many options for creating improve within those 3 frets.
-Cmin. with all options
-A-7b5... great access to melodic Minor
-Ebmaj lyd.
-all the pentatonic options (C Eb F G A), or typical
-Blue notes

And when you just add 1st finger stretch you open all doors

[wolflen]

learning scales for new players is a must..but HOW and WHERE to play them can be a confusing puzzle with no map for reference (the graphic fingerboard scale layouts to someone that does not know the note names yet may be of little help)

When I teach raw beginners..all I want to get them to do is move ONE finger at a time..many want to choke the neck into submission and are pressing on the strings with all their strength..getting them to relax and be comfortable..and use only the amount of pressure necessary to hear the note cleanly is not as easy as it sounds

I bypass note names and keys and all that until they get some finger independance and can move across several frets in both horozontal and vertical motions

I then use alot of visual ques as reinforcment of what they are playing..so reading comes into play .. so if we play a one octave C scale in 1st position all I want is to have them move their fingers first over the notes..then we will name the notes .. it is just adding more info than necessary at the beginning..who cares what the note names are if you cant play them..

depending on progress made and practice attitude I will then see what may be the next learing task..add the second octave or move the scale in chromatic steps..

as Reg said..the end result is to have the entire fretboard "open" .. not a series of boxes and sections..and yes this takes time