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One thing I'm using now is some etudes by Lennie Niehaus (an alto player). They're good, hip lines he varies his rhythms, the way all good horn players do. I have to get that Belson book, though...
Originally Posted by Reg
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07-03-2015 12:59 PM
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We could open or start a new thread... but could just keep developing this one.
So we started with a method or possible way of holding a pick. Which opened a lot of doors about what holding a pick in that style can imply. The technical aspects are one result and the performance... all the what you play, how you play why you played etc... all the performance aspects of playing jazz are basically the other.
Some believe they are all intertwined or sub-divided, OK that would reflect how one would develop the Skill(s).
I'm a believer in working on specific techniques... not mixing techniques until you've developed the technique to a level where you have a base reference, a default method of using the technique that's is somewhat created and becomes instinctive. As compared to letting the playing develop the defaults of the technique.
both approaches require work and have pros and cons.
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Reg, I think it would be great if you started a thread on technique. It could cover many things but to start, you could point out what technique is (-or at least what you mean by the term) and some of the most effective (-tried and true) methods of developing technique on guitar. Y Originally Posted by Reg
You have great technique, which adds weight to what you say. Also, you're great about sharing what you know and you never talk down to players who aren't at or near your level. So you're accomplished yet approachable and generous. You aren't pretentious but at the same time, you don't BS either. You already have a few pdfs of fingerings and exercises, in case people want them. "What technique is and how to develop yours" or something like that would be a thread that should live on a long time here.
My 2 cents
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:-) It's funny. I think he actually talks about not grunting for the classical recordings in this documentary: The interviewer mentions not grunting on the classical material, and he replies with something like "of course not" and provides some explanation . Originally Posted by grahambop
I've only got a couple of CD's of the trio, but I've probably listened to them more than just about any other jazz recordings. For me, getting into that music really began with the ballads, where I guess there's not as much grunting. At some point you almost forget about it. I suppose maybe some recordings are a little worse than others.
He apparently has some very serious issues, but the interaction achieved by those three men is worth a little "weird" for me personally, and I'm actually pretty intolerant of pretentious artistry for the most part.Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 07-03-2015 at 05:09 PM.
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+1 on reg doing a technique thread. His advice has helped me a ton so far, and I'd love to get more.
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Do I sense a wave???? Originally Posted by ecj
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Sure, but it would be useful to categorize what we mean by "Technique" into topics, as there is no universal definition for the term, at least not around these here parts, pardner.
for example:
scales
chords
arpeggios
melodic and harmonic intervals, including octaves
scale patterns (1234, 2345, 3456 OR 1231, 2342, 3453, etc., etc., etc.)
PLUS
left hand position and technique
right hand position and technique
PLUS - special topics
Slurring
Muting
Artificial Harmonics
Tremolo
Vibrato
Reg shouldn't have to set these categories up, by the way. That's a lot of pro bono work.
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Originally Posted by fumblefingers
Sure, but it would be useful to categorize what we mean by "Technique" into topics, as there is no universal definition for the term, at least not around these here parts, pardner.
There are many techniques but I think in this context, "technique" refers to right hand picking of single notes and the fingering such lines.
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i'd call that two topics, but whatever works
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Why not leave it up to him what he wants to do.
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Well of course Reg will do whatever he wants to do. The encouragement here demonstrates interest, which might influence what Reg does (or doesn't) do. Originally Posted by Para
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While were on the subject of technique, did anyone see Isaac Darche's article on using drum rudiments for picking?
I was tginking about this through my percussion methods classes. Anyone else ever try this??
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Heck yea ... It came up on the first or second page. I think me and pkirk both got the "Stick Control" book and have been working through it in various ways. I think it's awesome Originally Posted by lessofapaul
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agreed. I've been doing it a bit every day for a few weeks, and think it is fun and also forces me to think in new ways. Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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Ahh... finally good players getting into Stick,(pick), control... which will turn into rhythmic control and organization of attacks which will really improve, picking and fingering, and the most useful, Great feels, which all stem from rhythmic control and organization..... I know, and eventually you just instinctively play.
I can guaranty... as compared to what, I don't really know...but you will become a much better musician if you stay with it for a few months. And as Paul was saying... it will open many doors that may have been locked before.(sight reading)
As far as a technique thing, I'm honored, thanks... I'll go pretty much in any direction.
I'm comfortable with anything, drawing from list that fumblefingers put up, or as Mark said.
I believe without solid base of picking and fingering technique...most of the other subjects become theoretical somewhat. If your needing to always figure out how to pick or finger something, you tend to develop bad habits, at least that door's open.
And the fingering references are not one way only, you just need to decide what works for you to develop a default reference to work from. I am big on alternate picking as being the reference, I don't believe you should start anywhere else...and it's difficult to fix latter.
If we want to somewhat mix in playing music along with technique... I generally take short grooves of a few chords for applications of say fingerings in a position and picking and then move through a few positions.
The changes can be from tunes etc... you just don't want the creative process to influence the technical organization... at least while your developing defaults. Personally I don't care, I'm a very conscious thinking player, so I don't have any problems separating the two, but generally most do.
Mark... where and what...
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I love sight reading! Its what im working right at this moment. One of my old teachers wrote this book (Not THAT George Benson) and I do about a page a day. It's really just 64 pages of Giant Steps but it plays with expectations and makes you really read what is written.
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I think this is true. As the old saying goes, "You gotta start somewhere." I think that's a good place. Reg, you've covered a lot of this before, but if you start a thread on the subject (maybe a beginning thread---picking and fingering--and an advanced one--rhythm and grooves) it will be easier for people to find all the good stuff. (And to contribute to it.) Look what happened to Philco's "Benson Picking" thread---it's over 50 pages long and has remained active (and civil) for over two years. There are people who want to get better and take good advice to heart, work with it and share their joys and frustrations. Originally Posted by Reg
I have a question about picking basics: how important is tremolo picking? I have read that some teachers focus on that as the way to refine the picking motion and then move outward from there. Others seem to think it is not so important or helpful but more of special case.
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Hey Mark... OK thanks. So should I start "Beginning picking and fingerings" thread in this Getting started section.
And the "Advanced technique with rhythm and grooves" in ? Improvisation or somewhere else. I like the 1st thread, will help many guitarist, the advanced thread? I'm open to what ever technique players want me to get into. Maybe throw in the spatial and shape of what your playing could also be includes. I've heard some great playing from many players on this forum... I'll gladly throw in my BS and performance examples, but might be cool to have others also get involved. This thread would be more in the direction of posting examples etc... not as much BS, except to help or add to vid examples.
Thanks Reg
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... sorry forgot to address question...
I use tremolo a lot, more rhythmic tremolo to rhythmically accent grooves or feels. It's pretty east to buzzz on one string and should help technique or fast tempo alternate picking.... work on not getting tight, becoming effortless etc...
But tremolo between different strings can be pretty difficult and involves more movement... you know you have a peddle note that you tremolo and play fast 16ths, then play a moving line on the 1st 16th of each quarter note or beat. Great effect or way to transition to different section...
Yea I believe is very useful, pretty hard to play fast rhythmic ideas if you can't play the basic 16th note feel.
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Hey, Reg, it might be good for you to start with 'beginning picking and fingerings' thread. (Whatever you decide to call it, having 'technique' or 'picking technique' in the title would probably be a good idea. Heck, 'the rudiments of picking technique' might be good too.) You could see how that goes for a bit and that might help you decide where to start an 'advanced' thread. Originally Posted by Reg
"Guitar Technique" is good place to put the thread, though 'Getting Started' (-the area we are now in) would work too, as a) this is basic stuff and b) this is where the idea came about and this is where many people would look for such a thread. Either place you want to put it would be fine. (And if you put it one and later decide it's more suited to another, it can be moved---that's no problem.)
I think video demonstrations / examples would be a great help. People could see what you're going on about, and they could post a short clip and you (and everyone else involved) could see where they are at with a particular exercise or approach.
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I think you could start with just the beginning picking and fingerings thread (whatever you decide to call it, having 'technique' in the title is probably a good idea, and 'rudiments of picking technique' wouldn't be a bad idea, given the references in this thread to material by drummers). Putting it here ("Getting Started") is fine. The other option would be "Guitar Technique", and that would be fine too, though since the idea started here, it is the people following this thread who will be on the lookout for the next one. (We could add a link here too, when the time comes.) Originally Posted by Reg
After a few days or a week, you might have a better idea of where an 'advanced' thread would need to start in terms of focus.
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And it's probably a good idea to *stick* the thread. Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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I'm sooo looking fwd To reg's teaching.....Mark i've personally been doing the 1234.2341.... finger exersizes for a year now. It has made such a big difference in my picking and my left hand technique, my guitar teacher was blown away after i returned from summer break. couldn't believe the improvement...me either. and id say i didnt have a picking problem before i started doing them.... i started doing them to fix the way my pinky finger pops up when playing....fixed this problem in 2 weeks after 20 years of not even worrying about it.... and broken all my old habbits and given my fingers a level of control i've never been able to achieve ,Quickly...... id also like to say i really learned how to practice properly with this exersize too.... forcing myself to find the joy of 1 note a beat... very slow...boring... but once you lock in and accept it.....it becomes fun.... and i learned to break ,being bored. and really dug into enjoying practice... Before that i would jump around everywhere every 15 mins.... this really taught me to focus...and the results were amazing....and i still have a ton of work to do....but, look fwd to this exersize everyday i was shown this exersize the very first day i played the guitar.... took me almost 30 years to actually do it...... sadddd.... where id be today if i had just done it then.
p.s tremolo picking or sarod picking,or rotational picking, starts to develop after you crash you alt picking speed barrier. just my 2 cents but there is a speed that my picking switches over to this rotational picking...at about 110 bpm's doing 16ths mabe sooner. it just sort of naturally happens with the string hop. you'll see and feel it when you hit the speed. the feeling of picking litterally changes. for me picking becomes hardest right before that switch over. i struggle to keep up.... then the picking changes and becomes easier again. And i find 140 bmp easier to play then say 115 bmp playing 16ths because of the change over....
p.s.s Thank you Reg..... were all putty in your hands..... and ready to practice what you teach..
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I've been working on that too. After taking a month off of Benson picking and any sort of picking exercises, I have returned to a Benson-y grip and play a lot of tremolo stuff (sixteenths) at 160 bpm with no problem. That has more to do with the pick grip than anything else, but it's good to know I'm fine there and can bump it up when needed. It's good for playing slower also---when you can run through things at that tempo, it makes (mostly) 8ths at 200 or whatever easier. Originally Posted by Pocket Player
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The "problem" with the 4 finger excercise (which I also teach to beginners) is that it is easy. It's designed that way. Each string has an even number of notes and therefore always crosses strings with a downstroke. It is good for syncing the two hands. However as you probably noticed, you can do a four finger excercise real fast, then when you go back to improvise, play heads, etc.... Your back to tripping over certain things.
Imo a three finger excercise is much more valuable for things you will encounter (and stumble over) in the real world.
Overcoming outside picking
economy picking
pick/slur
playing straight eighths/sixteenths regardless of how they fall on the guitar.
application to scales
Seriously go back a few posts and check out the excercise I described. I guarantee you it will do much more for your playing than the four finger excercise. Remember, excercises shouldn't be easy. If your burning through an excercise, it's time to move on to a harder one.
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