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This week, our first minor scales, more chords, and a duet.
Welcome to our new members that are joining in this week.Last edited by fep; 04-02-2012 at 12:26 PM.
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03-26-2012 10:47 AM
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Hey, this thread is forgotten.
Let's get it started. Anyone want to talk about these 3 minor scales. What's up with that?
Here's my page 39, once the tapes rolling I usually will play a few seconds to get the fingers going and then I edit it out. This time I left it in thinking I'd just show you what I mean:
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Still here FEP, but time is limited at the moment.
I really like the sound of your Eastman. Nice instrument.
Hopkins visit over and I'm now 1+
Here's my p 39. Not happy with chords but will revisit them.
P40 looks like fun and hope to start it this p.m.
Page 39, Key of Am Scales and Rhythm.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage
and
Page 40-41 Duet
http://www.box.com/s/b9863bbd1b6bbc26801cLast edited by oldhead; 03-30-2012 at 12:33 AM.
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Hi Frank, Your warm up sounds cool. Wish I could warm up and sound that cool.
Only 3? But what happened to the important one?
Originally Posted by fep
Oldhead, you're in danger of making it sound easy. I adore that duet - especially the picky chordal part. Listening to you, I realise the tune is in the quarter notes - funny I hadn't realised that.
Will post more later, gotta deadline for something else.
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Fep,
Leavitt doesn't say much at all on them. What are your thoughts? This is my first introduction to them. I'm in the woodshed bro. I haven't forgotten about this lesson.
Will
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Right on Oldhead, pg 39 sounds spot on. Originally Posted by oldhead
Still here FEP, but time is limited at the moment.
I really like the sound of your Eastman. Nice instrument.
Hopkins visit over and I'm now 1+
Here's my p 39. Not happy with chords but will revisit them.
P40 looks like fun and hope to start it this p.m.
Page 39, Key of Am Scales and Rhythm.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage
and
Page 40-41 Duet
Page 40, Duet.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage
Duet, that was sweet. That one bit of whammy bar and the few extra notes were really nice. I didn't hear the Crescendo and Diminuendos, but still, excellent.
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Hi Will, Originally Posted by Will Glen
I think of the Natural Minor as being first, same notes as the relative major. So A minor and C major have the same notes but a different tonal center, which makes all the difference in the world.
Composer's didn't care too much for the v chord when harmonizing the natural minor so they added the raised 7 to get the V chord, which created the harmonic minor. So in the key of Am the v = Em, became the V = E; or E G B vs. E G# B.
Choral writers and choral singers didn't like the augmented second between the 6th and seventh degree of the harmonic minor. So they raised the 6th and you have the melodic minor.
In practice, you can use all the harmonized chords of all three scales when composing in minor.
So I like to think of them as being all combined in one, and the resulting pitch collection includes all the notes, and resulting chords available in minor (without leaving the diatonic chords).
TTL, she has some other minor is the "most important" one.
You do have the variation of the melodic minor that is used in jazz which ascends and descends with the same pitches. There are the modes of the major scale that include Dorian and Phyrigian. And there are also the modes that are derived from the Harmonic minor and Melodic Minor scales (like the altered scale and locrian #2 etc.)
That's about as much as I can think of, but I don't see any of those as being the 'most important'.
Okay, I give up. TTL?Last edited by fep; 03-30-2012 at 02:15 PM.
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Perhaps not 'most important', though I do find it odd that while preparing us for jazz (which, lets face it, he is) he goes through the classical melodic minor without the jazz melodic. But I'm getting ahead of myself.
There is much confusion about minor scales, understandably so as terms are used loosely without people really explaining what they mean. Perhaps I should start from the beginning?
By now we're fairly comfortable with the major scale, e.g the C major scale being the natural notes C, D, E, F, G, A and B (aka white notes on piano). Perhaps we could introduce a new name, ionian mode, to this. So C major scale could also be called C ionian. When we're in C major we notice certain chord patterns, like probably the last chord of the tune will be a C major, and the last note of the melody will be a C, an E or a G. And probably the penultimate chord will be a G7. We have a certain tonality - that is, we keep feeling like we come back to 'do' with C.
Now, we can take the same set of notes and shift the tonality. For the sake of the topic, let's shift it to A. So now A feels like 'do'. Our last chord is an A minor, our last melody note is either A, C or E. We are choosing from the same set of notes, but now we call them A, B, C, D, E, F and G. We have a new scale, we call it the natural minor scale (aka aeolian mode). For the sake of comparison, lets look at the A natural minor and the A major:
A nat min: A B C D E F G A
A major: A B C# D E F# G# A
So the difference between the major and minor scales is in the 3rd, the 6th and the 7th notes. The major scale has a major 3rd, the minor has a minor 3rd, and the difference is one semitone (1 fret). Same for the 6th and 7th.
As an aside, I have a theory that historically, the natural minor was the most important scale (otherwise, why label the keyboard as it is - why play a C major scale on white notes, why not an A?) I have no way of proving this, but certainly the different modes seem to have been used more with very early music. The natural minor seems to have fallen out of favour in recent centuries, but not completely. I was trying to write out End of all Hope (Nightwish) and struggled till I realised it was in aeolian (I think I'm right here, but someone please correct me if I'm wrong).
Probably enough for now. Next, unnatural minors?
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Fep & TLT,
Thanks for doing this.
I see you both mentioned Tonal Center.
This is new concept for me and I'm interested in learning more as we progress. This information is very helpful.
Maybe we could go ahead and put up the Jazz Melodic Minor scale in this lesson? For sight reading purposes primarily but to have a brief exposure to it as well.
I'm looking in my books to see what it is but have no way of notating it without writing out with a pen but like the clean look of computer generated notation. I think I'm going to download Musescore. I've been using TuxGuitar but the dang thing cuts off almost the last measure for each line when I print it off and I don't like reading notation from my computer screen. I don't know how to format the margins. I can't find out how to insert rhythmic patterns with it as well which is frustrating. (I'll get this figured out eventually and don't want to distract from the thread about notation software so if anyone has any tips please PM me).
Back to the minor scales.
Can someone notate out the Jazz Melodic Minor Scale and add it as a supplement either here or in the supplemental thread? If not that's cool. I can wait or work on figuring it out this week.Last edited by Will Glen; 03-30-2012 at 04:47 PM.
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That's it. Two ways to think about it. See it as the ascending classical melodic, only it goes this way both ways. Or think of it as the same as the major scale, only with a flattened 3rd.
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I counted off in 4/4 lol. Don't know what I was thinking.
I listened to everyone's and great job all around. This little duet is my favorite thus far. I enjoyed them all and keep up the good work folks and thanks for the Jazz Melodic Minor scale Fep. I get it.
Pretty Pickin duet pgs 40 and 41.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage
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Here's my recording of the duet:
duet pg 40 both parts.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage
It's not error-free (mostly picking problems) and it's very slow, but I can hear it's more musical than what I could do before we started, so that's got to be good.
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Great job Will. Sounds good on an acoustic, and I like the way you brought out the doted half notes on the 1st guitar part. Thanks for posting. Originally Posted by Will Glen
I counted off in 4/4 lol. Don't know what I was thinking. I listened to everyone's and great job all around. This little duet is my favorite thus far. I enjoyed them all and keep up the good work folks and thanks for the Jazz Melodic Minor scale Fep. I get it.
Pretty Pickin duet pgs 40 and 41.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage
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Nice TLT, Originally Posted by ten left thumbs
Good time, nice sound, you got all the notes.
I don't know if you mix the volume of the two parts, I think part 1 could be just a tad louder.
Part 1 sounds real good, I really like the sound of your eighth note runs like at m.4 of the 4th system.
Part 2, there were a few parts where it sounded a bit staccato, Like m.2 2nd system, m.2 4th system, m.3 last system.
Thanks for posting.
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With this picking technique I'm having a hard time bringing out the dotted half notes for Guitar 1, I find if I roll my arm a tad towards the 'normal' picking position this cross picking becomes easier to control the dynamics. Something for me to consider as I move forward with revamping my picking technique.
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Thankyou for your helpful comments, I do appreciate you taking the time. I recorded part 1 first, then played it while recording part two, so the volume level is a bit hit and miss. However I think I prefer this to playing both parts 'dry' to a metronome - at least I get to hear the music as I play. Originally Posted by fep
Legato is a long-term commitment.
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Here's my interpretation of the music: When played as a duet, the 'tune' is in the 1 beat notes. The arpeggiation is accompaniment. This is not a Bach invention, it is not counterpoint. It is too much to ask the 3-beat notes to 'compete' with the tune (because they only happen once a bar). If you want the 3-beat notes to ring out as melody, you need to play the 1st part alone, then you can work on the dynamics. Originally Posted by fep
Just my tuppence!
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Hi Oldhead. Nice job on the Duet. You kept the parts together really well. I thought I heard a little bit of crescendo and diminuendo but not very much. Maybe you weren't focused on that area? Originally Posted by oldhead
Still here FEP, but time is limited at the moment.
I really like the sound of your Eastman. Nice instrument.
Hopkins visit over and I'm now 1+
Here's my p 39. Not happy with chords but will revisit them.
P40 looks like fun and hope to start it this p.m.
Page 39, Key of Am Scales and Rhythm.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage
and
Page 40-41 Duet
Page 40, Duet.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage
Are you using some compression on your guitar tone? If so, it sounds good but might make it harder to gauge your attack on the dynamics.
Thanks for posting!
Hi Will. Good job on the duet. I really like your overall feel, it has that foot tapping quality. Originally Posted by Will Glen
I counted off in 4/4 lol. Don't know what I was thinking. I listened to everyone's and great job all around. This little duet is my favorite thus far. I enjoyed them all and keep up the good work folks and thanks for the Jazz Melodic Minor scale Fep. I get it.
Pretty Pickin duet pgs 40 and 41.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage
I could hear you where adding in the dynamics. I found that to be pretty tricky. Either I wouldn't start soft enough and would run out of headroom or I would relax my volume before reaching the dim.
Thanks for posting!
Originally Posted by ten left thumbs
Pretty smooth TLT. I heard some nice dynamics in there especially on the repeat. That's a good sign you're comfortable with the song.
Super smooth fep. I thought your tempo captured the feeling perfectly. The dynamics felt natural. It sounded like you were going to bring the volume down even more heading into the D.C. ...based on the feel you had going. Originally Posted by fep
I only heard one mistake, I think you skipped an 1/8 note on G1 in the Coda.
Thanks for posting and doing the extra stuff to keep this going.
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Nice job, Will. It sounds good. Is there any way to get your guitar volume up and the metronome down? The met is kind of drowning out the guitar. Originally Posted by Will Glen
I counted off in 4/4 lol. Don't know what I was thinking. I listened to everyone's and great job all around. This little duet is my favorite thus far. I enjoyed them all and keep up the good work folks and thanks for the Jazz Melodic Minor scale Fep. I get it.
Pretty Pickin duet pgs 40 and 41.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage
TFP
Do any of us post error-free? I sure don't. I don't think it's as slow as you think it is, and I do hear the musicality in it. It just keeps getting better, and I'm glad you didn't give up the ship. TFP Originally Posted by ten left thumbs
Well, FEP, the duet is right on. This is a really pretty piece and you do it justice, as usual. I wish I could worry about technique. It's all I can do to read it and play. Maybe technique comes with time. I really liked the "just kidding". We need more of that! Originally Posted by fep
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Well played, Frank! Sounds as though you've played some scales in your day, as there's an expressiveness there that usually comes only with fairly deep familiarity. That's a compliment, I swear. Originally Posted by fep
Dig the Eastman.
kj
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Nice. Gonna try to play this one as an actual duet (previous one I posted 1 part at a time...eee.) I'm "re-vamping" my picking technique, too, btw. Love how it's working out, but lots of practice remaining. Originally Posted by fep
Dig the improv at the end - ha!
kj
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Exasperation!
I've spent 10x more time on recording than on music this week, and I'm so *sick* of this tune, I can't take it any more.
I'll add the second half later - maybe.
I screwed up the attempt at overdubbing, but for your boundless enjoyment, I somehow dubbed in the click track and can't get it out.
About click tracks: I love my metronome. But a clicking in my ear and nowhere else? No!!!! Drives me crazy, and I can't hang with it as with a metronome. Much practice ahead with the click track in the ear. Any tips for dealing with this damned thing much appreciated.
Here's Leavitt's wonderful composition, "Pretty Pickin'," with an annoying popping sound all throughout. Again, it appears I've played it too fast.
More later today. Upload #1: https://www.box.com/s/4f095da0eccb07f22ef7Last edited by Kojo27; 05-06-2012 at 05:45 AM.
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Easy, bro.
So first off, take it easy. Recordings don't need to be perfect. Mistakes are OK.
Second, if one thing is continually tripping you up then what you need is either: slow down (40bpm normally does the trick for me) or go back to an easier exercise. Or both. No shame in finding this book hard, but it is progressive.
You're a good player. You're used to making good music. Don't expect anything from this book to sound good just now. Accept you're learning new skills, and give yourself a break! Then have fun with something else.
It will all come good, you just need to give it time.
btw, great recording!
The metronome: what do you use? I have an electronic and a mechanical wind-up. I obey the mechanical one. Click tracks don't do much for me. Cost me £30. Practice with, practice without. Record with, record without. If it's in your ear, then protect your hearing, but I don't see the point of one in the ear.
And thanks for the kind words about my recording.
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Thanks Laura. It's the sight reading that's continually (constantly?) tripping me up. I'm not sure slowing down would make much difference, but I'll try. I can read just about anything; sight-reading is a different deal. I didn't know I was so bad at it until now. Originally Posted by ten left thumbs
Easy, bro. So first off, take it easy. Recordings don't need to be perfect. Mistakes are OK.
Second, if one thing is continually tripping you up then what you need is either: slow down (40bpm normally does the trick for me) or go back to an easier exercise. Or both. No shame in finding this book hard, but it is progressive.
And: I'm not sure how one would use a click-track, if not through headphones. What you hear in the recording is the click-track, or echoes of it, something. Sounds really strange, imo. /// Normally, I use a metronome - it's electronic, but has the wooden sound of a "real" metronome. In years past, I used a Franz, mechanical and wooden, very nice and expensive, but now unavailable here, as far as I can tell. And I *love* playing with the metronome. I dig it. But this beep-in-the-ear (or click or thump, lots of options) is foreign to me, and I'm thrown by it.
Obviously, if I were to record my acoustic guitar, with a metronome going, the metronome would end up in the recording. This is the purpose of a headphone click track - you hear it, but the microphone doesn't.
Anyway - thanks so much for your great help and kind words. I'll do the rest of the work for this thread now, and then I gotta figure out an approach to this sight-reading problem. 30 minutes, twice a day?
We'll see.
kj
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The A minor scales, and the rhythm playing in A major.
https://www.box.com/s/662c8cc09f070667513f
Pretty soon, I'll try to play the duet -- and not just half of it. I'm still sick of the tune, so for now, on to the next thread.
KJ
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