A Modern Method for Guitar Vol 1 Pages 25 to 26

**fep** · 02-13-2012, 12:24 PM

So those that chimed in wanted to do three pages thru page 26.

Well thru 26 is just two pages, so we'll go with two pages thru 26.

Originally Posted by ronjazz

I'd also like to express again, and will do every once in a while, the idea that going through the book in order is not for everybody. What you're all doing here is wonderful and amazing, but don't let it become a trap. You can always go back and catch up on things that you might have had some trouble with, and, there is no test at the end.

Originally Posted by Bill Leavitt

...do not attempt to "completely perfect" any one lesson before going on. Playing technique is an accumulative process and you will find that each time you review material already studied it will seem easier to play. (Slow , steady practice and constant review will eventually lead to speed and accuracy)

Those two thoughts... make it easier to keep up with the group.

Originally Posted by Bill Leavitt

Review of all material is a must.

**ten left thumbs** · 02-14-2012, 12:38 PM

... the sound of practicing ...

You're probably right to keep us to two pages, Frank. There's plenty to review.

**ten left thumbs** · 02-14-2012, 08:51 PM

Bit of an experiment for me:

I do hope the videos make some sense, and makes sense of some of the chords we are playing. What I meant to say (but forgot) is that you can see that the chords are just fragments of the scale.

If anyone is up for a challenge, a good exercise is to take a simple tune, like Twinkle Twinkle little star, and put chords to it. Don't just do it once, do it maybe 5 times, seeing what different chords, in different combinations, you can come up with, what ones work and what ones don't. Twinkle can be kept entirely within the one key so it's a good one to try.

**oldhead** · 02-15-2012, 12:09 AM

Originally Posted by fep

Okay I'm game. The performance isn't too good as I just figure out some chords while playing around with the melody and then went for it, this is an unpracticed piece if you will.

Wow, FEP, I don't know whether to be really inspired

or just sell out my guitars.

You're setting the bar very high. I'll think I'll choose the former, at least for now. If I could play Twinkle even close to that I'd be thrilled. Maybe at the end of MM1 you can teach us that.

Nice!!

**oldhead** · 02-15-2012, 01:22 AM

FEP, After pondering selling my guitars, I thought better of it, and decided to post something at the other end of the spectrum from yours. I think you can hear Twinkle in it - at least I hope so. This was a great exercise!! Thanks for the challenge TLT.

Twinkle.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

**ten left thumbs** · 02-15-2012, 10:44 AM

OK, I'm outdone! Frank, that's why I'm doing this book, that's amazing. Can you both tell us what chords you used?

What I'm hoping should be possible is this: sticking to just the simple chords of the scale (C, Dm, Em, F, G or G7, Am), seeing how many possibilities there are, before using fancier techniques like 7ths, 9ths, sus, descending bass, etc. So, if I take the first line I can play:

(C)twinkle twinkle (F)little (C)star

Or I can play

(C)twinkle (Am)twinkle (F)little (G)star

or perhaps

(Em)twinkle (Am)twinkle (Dm)little (G7)star

Should I do 7ths next week? I always think it's so much easier to see on the keyboard, but perhaps that's just me, because I learned that first, and maybe for a guitarist it isn't. It was ronjazz gave me the idea when he said he uses a keyboard to explain the scale, etc.

**ten left thumbs** · 02-15-2012, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by oldhead

Leavitt seems to assume we know (at least for myself) much more than some of us do know.

I think he does assume some knowledge of theory, or that the student is also taking a general music course. There's too much to go into, if he started on theory, he, it would drown out the rest of the book.

**oldhead** · 02-15-2012, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by ten left thumbs

OK, I'm outdone! Frank, that's why I'm doing this book, that's amazing. Can you both tell us what chords you used?

What I'm hoping should be possible is this: sticking to just the simple chords of the scale (C, Dm, Em, F, G or G7, Am), seeing how many possibilities there are, before using fancier techniques like 7ths, 9ths, sus, descending bass, etc. So, if I take the first line I can play:

(C)twinkle twinkle (F)little (C)star

Or I can play

(C)twinkle (Am)twinkle (F)little (G)star

or perhaps

(Em)twinkle (Am)twinkle (Dm)little (G7)star

Should I do 7ths next week? I always think it's so much easier to see on the keyboard, but perhaps that's just me, because I learned that first, and maybe for a guitarist it isn't. It was ronjazz gave me the idea when he said he uses a keyboard to explain the scale, etc.

I have no idea if this is technically correct but you can sing it to these chords.

(C) twinkle (G) twinkle (Am) little (G) star (F) how I (Dm) wonder (Em) where you (C) are
Repeat
(G) up a (F) bov the (Am) world so (G) high (G) like a (F) diamond (Am) in the (G) sky
(C) twinkle (G) twinkle (Am) little (G) star (Dm - 4 beats) how I (Em -4 beats) wonder (G7) where you - 4 beats) (C) are.

**fep** · 02-15-2012, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by oldhead

Wow, FEP, I don't know whether to be really inspired

or just sell out my guitars.

You're setting the bar very high. I'll think I'll choose the former, at least for now. If I could play Twinkle even close to that I'd be thrilled. Maybe at the end of MM1 you can teach us that.

Nice!!

Seriously, I think I have about average innate ability. I think the main difference between us is I've put in a lot more hours learning guitar and am therefore more experienced.

The good news, learning guitar is fun, the whole process has been fun. If I had to start all over, I'd do it again.

So don't get rid of those guitars, keep learning and keep having fun.

**fep** · 02-15-2012, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by oldhead

FEP, After pondering selling my guitars, I thought better of it, and decided to post something at the other end of the spectrum from yours. I think you can hear Twinkle in it - at least I hope so. This was a great exercise!! Thanks for the challenge TLT.

Twinkle.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

Hey that's nice, good rhythm and feel, that was fun.

And ha ha to that last chord, do you remember the name of that chord?

**oldhead** · 02-15-2012, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by fep

Hey that's nice, good rhythm and feel, that was fun.

And ha ha to that last chord, do you remember the name of that chord?

C9, and looking forward to using it in a real way.
Question: I think I read a minor chord has a sad or down sound and a 7th a happy or up sound. So how is a m7 described??

**fep** · 02-15-2012, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by ten left thumbs

Can you both tell us what chords you used?

(C) twinkle (C) twinkle (F6) little (Em11) star (Dm7) how I (Dm9b5)* wonder (G9) where you (C6) are

(C) twinkle (B7#9#5) twinkle (Em11) little (A7) star (Dm7) how I (Ab7#5) wonder (G9) where you (C6) are

(Em7) up a (Dm7) bove the (Dm9) world so (G7) high (Em7) like a (Bb7) diamond (A7) in the (Ab7b5) sky

(Dbmaj7)** twinkle (Db7b5) twinkle (Gb7#9) little (Fmaj9) star (Bb7) how I (A7) wonder (Ab7b5) where you (Dbmaj7) are (C).

Notes:
* I played these notes from low to high - D Ab C E, this is technically not a Dm9b5 (It's a E7#5 in third inversion) but, I consider it a Dm9b5 in this context as it's in the middle of a bunch of Dominant sounding 'stuff' and there is an F (the third) immediately before and after this chord. I realize that most wouldn't analyze it this way.

** While I switched from a C chord as the first chord of the phrase to a Dbmaj7 as the first chord of the phrase, I continued to use the same melody note, the C note. Over the C chord the C note is the root, over the Dbmaj7 the C note is the 7th, that's what gives it the unusual color. Also since the melody notes stay the same, it's sounds ambiguous to me as to whether this is a modulation or not, the tonal center still seems to be C.

**ten left thumbs** · 02-15-2012, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by oldhead

I have no idea if this is technically correct but you can sing it to these chords.

(C) twinkle (G) twinkle (Am) little (G) star (F) how I (Dm) wonder (Em) where you (C) are
Repeat
(G) up a (F) bov the (Am) world so (G) high (G) like a (F) diamond (Am) in the (G) sky
(C) twinkle (G) twinkle (Am) little (G) star (Dm - 4 beats) how I (Em -4 beats) wonder (G7) where you - 4 beats) (C) are.

Hi Oldhead, this is what I had in mind - not these specific chords, but just mulling through the possibilities and experimenting and coming up with something that wasn't totally predictable from the start. So we start with simple harmony and as we get more sophisticated our choices become more infinite (hey, can anything even be *more* infinite?), as Frank is demonstrating, and the music becomes more exciting. So theory is giving us a framework to create from, rather than being used to say, this is 'correct' and this isn't.

Playing through your chords, they sound good imo, the only one I wouldn't be too sure about is the Em at the end of the first line, but maybe you have a way of making it fit that I'm not hearing.

**ten left thumbs** · 02-15-2012, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by fep

(C) twinkle (C) twinkle (F6) little (Em11) star (Dm7) how I (Dm9b5)* wonder (G9) where you (C6) are

(C) twinkle (B7#9#5) twinkle (Em11) little (A7) star (Dm7) how I (Ab7#5) wonder (G9) where you (C6) are

(Em7) up a (Dm7) bove the (Dm9) world so (G7) high (Em7) like a (Bb7) diamond (A7) in the (Ab7b5) sky

(Dbmaj7)** twinkle (Db7b5) twinkle (Gb7#9) little (Fmaj9) star (Bb7) how I (A7) wonder (Ab7b5) where you (Dbmaj7) are (C).

Notes:
* I played these notes from low to high - D Ab C E, this is technically not a Dm9b5 (It's a E7#5 in third inversion) but, I consider it a Dm9b5 in this context as it's in the middle of a bunch of Dominant sounding 'stuff' and there is an F (the third) immediately before and after this chord. I realize that most wouldn't analyze it this way.

** While I switched from a C chord as the first chord of the phrase to a Dbmaj7 as the first chord of the phrase, I continued to use the same melody note, the C note. Over the C chord the C note is the root, over the Dbmaj7 the C note is the 7th, that's what gives it the unusual color. Also since the melody notes stay the same, it's sounds ambiguous to me as to whether this is a modulation or not, the tonal center still seems to be C.

wow. Way above my pay-grade. But there is always hope. I learn so slow...

**ten left thumbs** · 02-17-2012, 05:06 AM

Here's my attempt on second solo:

second solo.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

self-critique: This time I managed mostly to play the right notes, and not to play the wrong ones. As for letting the melody ring out, shaping a phrase, controlling the bass harmonies - I've got a l - o - n - g way to go.

**oldhead** · 02-17-2012, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by ten left thumbs

Here's my attempt on second solo:

second solo.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

self-critique: This time I managed mostly to play the right notes, and not to play the wrong ones. As for letting the melody ring out, shaping a phrase, controlling the bass harmonies - I've got a l - o - n - g way to go.

TLT, I thought it sounded good. I was wondering how you would handle m23. That's one place where I'm having a lot of difficulty, and it seems to really make a difference if you can let the F# ring all the way through the second beat, but what a s-t-r-e-t-c-h. Nice job!

**ten left thumbs** · 02-17-2012, 10:04 AM

Thanks oldhead. That stretch is very tough for me - probably about the limit of what I can do. When I first played this I simply gave up and instead barred the first 3 strings at fret 5 - which gives the same chord in a different inversion. But the, you know, that same chord comes up time and time again, on page 36, 38, 41, and eventually I figured I should go for it, and give up caring whether I hit the notes correctly or not. And now it's very much hit and miss whether I get the notes - but if I'm properly warmed up it is within reach - just - and so I keep going.

This guitarist is my inspiration:

**oldhead** · 02-17-2012, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by This guitarist is my inspiration:
[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njG_dQC-cnk"

Little North Korean Girl Playing Guitar ??????????? - YouTube[/URL]

You have got to be kidding me! Does savant come to mind? child prodigy?
Unbelievable! Certainly something to aim for. Thanks for posting that TLT.

**ten left thumbs** · 02-17-2012, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by oldhead

You have got to be kidding me! Does savant come to mind? child prodigy?

Probably the expression you are looking for is 'product of a totalitarian regime'. Still, if she can do it...

**fep** · 02-17-2012, 03:49 PM

I took some liberties with the time, playing it a bit rubato here and there and purposely (honestly) speeding it up at the B section. A bit rough, here it is:

**oldhead** · 02-18-2012, 09:00 AM

It doesn't sound rough to me. I've said it before - you make it look easy.
I'll take that "rough" in my trying to play any time. I enjoy listening to you play these pieces and it gives us something to shoot for. TFP

**fep** · 02-18-2012, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by ten left thumbs

Thanks for the feedback, fep. One can do the F#dim as you suggest, it sounds OK, but later in the book the same chord appears, and without playing in that inversion, you miss a lot. So sooner or later, it's a stretch to master.

Your recording is wonderful! The shifts of time are musical in context and you make the phrases sound like phrases. Mine sound rather like I *am* skinning a cat.

Yeah, not a D9. I was thinking D9 when I played it, I guess I was hearing it that way. Leavitt's chord, F# A C E spells F#halfdim7, aka F#m7b5.

**fep** · 02-18-2012, 01:20 PM

Here's my go at it:

**oldhead** · 02-18-2012, 02:04 PM

Nice, FEP. Sounds spot on.
Here's my attempt.

Etude No. 3, P. 26.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

**ten left thumbs** · 02-18-2012, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by oldhead

Nice, FEP. Sounds spot on.
Here's my attempt.

Etude No. 3, P. 26.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

Hi oldhead. I honestly think that was too fast for you. It seemed to me to be about 120. 70-80 would be more helpful. It's an impressive amount of work into it nonetheless!