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I've seen lots and lots of arpeggios, and lots of "the" arpeggio. What are the rules for constructing "the" arpeggio?
Starts on the root? Not according to what I've seen. What, then?
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02-01-2011 06:43 PM
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I think this is like "the wife".
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I don't know what the arpeggio is. But Carlton did talk about what he called the "super arpeggio." It is just alternating M3s and m3s. It sounds great when he plays it - it never really worked for me.
Peace,
Kevin
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You've seen it? Can we get a clue?
Originally Posted by Ron Stern
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Maybe it's like a Loch Ness monster kind of thing. He has a friend who claims to have seen it, but he was drunk at the time.
Peace,
Kevin
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1 3 5 7 9 11 13
apply this to all the scales and modes for just about any 7 note scale. I'll use mixoldian as an example
C E G Bb D F A
triads in order
CEG
EGBb
G Bb D
Bb DF
DFA
FAC
ACE
All can be used against C7
next 7ths
C7
Emi7b5
Gmi7
Bbma7
Dmi7
Fma7
Ami7
All can be used against a C7
The closest you are to C the more in you sound. (C Edim Ami, C7 Emi7b5 Ami7) and the further away you go the out you get (Gmi, Bb Dmi F, Gmi7, Bbma7 etc
Bbma7 Contains the 7 9 11 13 so playing a Bbma7 arppeggio instantly gives you the upper partials (Plus some other modes to use based of of Bb ma)
Put each triad and 7th over a C pedal (or even the Tritone from C7) and see what chords you get. The triad doesn't work as well in the mixolydian as perhaps the lydian dominant does but you should try them all. Some will work better than others
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42?
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No, that's Life, the Universe and Everything. What was the question, though? Originally Posted by jbraun002
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If you start on the 2nd of a key this alternating m3rds and 3rds is diatonic(ex.)key of C start on D (DFACEGBD) Originally Posted by ksjazzguitar
key of G start on A (ACEGBDF#A)
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Yes, but his point is that it keeps going, up into non-diatonicism. Originally Posted by voelker
Peace,
Kevin
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Originally Posted by ksjazzguitar
Regarding Larry Carlton's Super arpeggio, the diagram I saw (on a different board) showed it off of a Dmi.
You got Dm F Am C Em G Bmb5 and the started over with D#mi.
I don't know if that's what he had in mind. The only other reference I found was a Guitar Player article that only showed diatonic examples.
If you think about it though, playing the full 13th shows you the basics about that scale or mode. What the triads are, the 7ths, 9th, etc are, the type of extentions (b9, 9 # 9 etc.) it's just another learning / ear training tool
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I thought the Larry Carleton arpeggio modulated keys because it is strictly alternating minor/major thirds:
Starting with Dmi:
DFAC EGBD F#AC#E AbCbEbGb BbDbFAb CEbGBb DFAC,,,
When I break it into 4 notes groups it's easier for me to visualize. It also makes more sense to me to play it in reverse -- more circle-of-fifths-ie.
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Could be BDLH. Only references I saw were as I mentioned. Kind of a difficult way to play "out" though. Look at the patterns. Building a triad off of the 6th note and you get B minor against a D minor 7 whereas if you kept it more diatonic you would get Bmib5 or Bmi7b5 (Dmi6)
I mean checkout this chord[CHORD]
||---|---|---|---|---|---|-b-|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|-f#|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|-d-|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|-a-|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|-f-|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|-d-|---|
[/CHORD]
Definetely an aquired taste
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Yes, the Carlton arpeggio starts out inside and then goes increasingly outside the farther up you go. I remember him discussing on a video I had of his.
Like I said, he makes it sounds great, but I haven't been able to.
Peace,
Kevin
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Arpeggio has to mean something other than the user's intent of the moment in order to be a useful term. Otherwise, the entire Beethoven 9th symphony is an arpeggio because some schlemiel likes to describe it that way.
According to Wikipedia an arpeggio is all the notes of a chord, and nothing but. Throw in a non-chord note and it's not an arpeggio.
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It may still be the arpeggio of another chord. Originally Posted by Ron Stern
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What if the chord was C13? a 13th contains all the upper partials as well as the original 7th chord. So , I don't really agree with the Wiki definition. Originally Posted by Ron Stern
I've heard of 2 references to THE arpeggio. One is the master arpeggio that I gave you above and the other is the Larry Carlton Super Arpeggio which is similar.
aside from that.....
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It's the arpeggio for the "lost chord".
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It would seem that no matter what the chord, if the sequence contains all the notes of the chord, and no other notes, then it's the arpeggio of that chord. Originally Posted by JohnW400
Don't know what you mean by "upper partials". I've only heard about partials in the context of overtones. A single note has overtones.
Why don't you agree with the definition?
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The upper partials are the notes above the 7th. 9,11 and 13th. In theory each of these degrees is like a stepping stone up to the 13. A 13th contains all the notes in the 7th chord (1357) plus the 9 ,11 and 13th.
This gives you all 7 notes of the scale arranged in order of 3rds.
C E G B D F A. 1 3 5 7 9 11 13.
What this also gives you is the road map to all kinds of things like chord substitutions (Emi7 for Cma7 ex) getting more OUT the further you go away from the root. It also gives you ideas for what triads to use over the root and to see how it would affect the root chord (G/C = Cma9)
It's easier to see the value of this when you move to the modes as the 11th in the major scale is not widely used. However the #11 in the Lydian mode.
Applying this to the Lydian mode would show you how you could use a Bmi7 against a Cma7 and hit all of the outside notes without too much about it. Knowing this may lead you to that B minor pentatonic works great over Cma7
As far as the definition , its the "nothing but part". It's kind of silly. The definition should be more like "it's the notes of a chord played individually in some type of order".
I say some type of order since there are several ways you could play an arpeggio. CEGB BGEC CGEB BEGC etc. etc.
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I'm also not familiar with that use of the word "partial." What you are describing I'm used to hearing called "extensions." Originally Posted by JohnW400
To me, a partial is any of the component sine waves that make up a complex wave form. The partials whose frequencies are integer multiples of the fundamental are called "harmonics" or "overtones." A quick check of the online Grove's Dictionary of Music, Oxford Dictionary of Music, and Oxford Companion to Music agrees with this.
I'm not saying that no one calls extension "partials" - but they are in the minority and are not consistent with the common usage of the term.
Perhaps some confusion arises since musicians have long tried to show that extensions can be derived from the harmonic series - like the so called "overtone scale."
Peace,
Kevin
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upper partials. 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and higher tones in harmonic series which are at fixed intervals above fundamental.
from:
The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Music | 1996 document.write("| MICHAEL KENNEDY and JOYCE BOURNE"); | MICHAEL KENNEDY and JOYCE BOURNE
I've heard that term years ago as well. Can't remember where. Maybe it's English.
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Upper partials? Do we need 'em?
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Actually it is, I just left that part out. An arpeggio is all the notes of one chord played individually in any order. Originally Posted by JohnW400
In fact that's what prompted the question. Don't remember where or when . . . but I heard someone say "At this point it's just 'the' arpeggio" and I wondered what he meant, exactly.
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If extensions are partials, what is the whole?
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