connecting arpeggios

[RichVincent]

Greetings:
I have been playing guitar off and on, non seriously since the 60s, still consider myself a beginner. I have reached the point where I understand the harmonization of the scales and how to find arpeggios and scales appropriate to basic seventh chords.
On your arpeggio site I found nice examples of a II V I progression in G Major..The problem I am having now is finding material to learn to connect arpeggios.It is nice to have an appropriate chord form above the arpeggio. I wonder if there are resources out there that show you the chord forms and arpeggios under them. I do not want to reinvent the wheel and this is not just an intellectual exercise for me.Learning to run arpeggios will instill a lot of confidence and be a steppingstone to mixing arpeggios with scales and later on licks.I have a lot of chord progressionsn I would like to run arpeggios over, especially the first twenty pages of Mickey Baker Vol.! which for me has been a goldmine.If any one can help out on this question I would be very greatful.
RichVincent

[Goofsus4]

Check out Mimi Fox's "Arpeggio Studies Over Jazz Standards" if you want some instructional material. She shows exactly what you are talking about - how to play through the changes using arpeggios and connecting the arps with voice leading so they connect smoothly and musically. There is not a lot of theoretical discussion though, but if you look at the examples (tab and standard notation provided), and analyze what intervals are being played, you'll see the intervals she is using to connect the arps. The book also provides a variety of chord arpeggio diagrams and if I remember, she shows the standard chord shapes embedded in the arp. I am sure the diagrams highlight the roots, so it's easy to see the CAGED shapes in the arp patterns.

Amazon.com: Mel Bay Guitar Arpeggio Studies on Jazz Standards: Mimi Fox: Books

[derek]

I agree the Mimi Fox book is good. I have it, but I had already gone down this path before I bought it, so I will tell you what I do.

I was taught a 2 ocatve arpeggio pattern based on the root being on the 6th string, and a 2 ocatve pattern based on 5th string root. I learned these for major, minor, dominant, half diminished 7th chords. Practiced them around the key circle until I had them down cold.

At the same time, I learned the 3 note 7th chord shell voicings for major, minor, dominant and 1/2 diminished. So, I could see all the chord tones due to the arps, and the 3rd and 7th guide tones.

Then, taking tunes from the real book, I began to run thru the changes using the arps, and sliding into 3rds or 7ths of the next chord to connect. After a while, this became easier, and I started using chromatics to connect them.

The next step for me was to use substitutes and upper extension triads. This also with bitonals is where I am now. I am working on connecting all the above with scale framents, and just trying to phrase in ways that sounds musical rather than like arps & scales. Dunno if this was the sort of thing you were looking for.

[RichVincent]

Derek
Many apologies for not getting back to you sooner. I had to take my computer into the shop and it will be there a week. Yes, all of the info you gave me was right on. In fact I am going to start with the two two octave arpeggios starting on the fifth and sixth string respectively for the major scale and learn them.Would it be too much trouble for you to write the forms of those two arpeggios? I have looked at Mimi Fox and Frank Vignola's book and none seem appropriate. You go on to say that then you learned them( the arpeggios) for the minor and dominant and diminished. I am not sure but what I read is that you use the two major scales as a model and then, for example, you will play the minor seventh arpeggios with the third flatted and the major seventh flatted.And you do the same with the dominant and diminished scales.
I looked at the fingerboard and if you are going around the cycle you can start up at the twelfth fret on the sixth string, run the arpeggio up and down, then start the next arpeggio a forth up on the fifth string twelfth fret, the go down to the tenth fret sixth string, and keep going. Please correct me if I am wrong. Your e-mail got me hopping. I can see exactly where the whole thing is going.
I want to thank you for the patience it took for you to write this all out. By the way, how long have you been playing jazz? I always ask people that question. I am amazed at the depth of knowledge that people have on this forum.And I will be looking forward to your reply to see how much of this I got right.
Yours Truly
RichVincent

[Goofsus4]

Oh, I think I understand your question now. I thought you were wanting to connect arpeggios "through the changes." That's the main thrust of Mimi's book.

[derek]

Rich,

I have been studying jazz for about 6 years. I will try to create these arps in a pdf file for you, but it might take me a few days.

As far as the around the key circle thing, I start with C on the 6th string, 8th fret and play the maj 7 pattern 2 octaves up and down. Next is the F on the 5th string, 8th fret. 2 octaves up and down. Slide this down 2 frets to Bb on the 6th string, Eb on the 5th. Then Ab on 6th, Db on 5th. Finally, Gb on the 6th. At this point, I "turn" and start B on the 6th string, 7th fret, E on 5th string, 7th fret. A on 6th string, D on 5th, G on 6th, finishing on C again, this time 5th fret.

I repeat this with minor 7th, dom 7th, & half diminished. After a while, you get these things down, and you need to quit playing them this way. Instead of just running them up and down, skip around a bit, sequence them, slide, hammer on/off, etc to make them more musical.

I do this process with every new thing I learn, whether chord, scale, lick, etc. Helps me to see it everywhere, and by doing this, I can play in any key, it really doesn't matter to me.

By just playing thru some tunes you know in the Real Book, you will start to see how these things connect, as we use many of the same progressions over and over again. Eventually, you will see additional notes around that can be grabbed to alter your dominants, etc.

Hopefully this process makes sense.

Matt, I would love to hear your take on how you teach students to integrate arpeggios.

[AlsoRan]

Derek, it has been over 2 and 1/2 years and your post is still helping poor wannabe jazz guitarists such as me. I have been playing guitar for four years and have information overload combined with a love of too many genres, causing a lack of focus ncecessary to conquer any one of them. Still, I latched on to your idea of playing all scales/arpeggios/modes/etc.. using the cycle of fourths/fifths as a way of learning the fingerboard and of transposing into different keys. Thanks.

[docbop]

Just grab you Real Book and start arpeggating thru tunes with changes. Connect to the nearest arp note on the changes. You'll have to do it slow to start, but it will really open up how to see the fretboard.

There is an MI book on Jazz Improv by Joe Elliot that covers this in depth. Mimi Fox's book on this is good too.

[gtGT]

I agree the Mimi Fox book is good. I have it, but I had already gone down this path before I bought it, so I will tell you what I do.

I was taught a 2 ocatve arpeggio pattern based on the root being on the 6th string, and a 2 ocatve pattern based on 5th string root. I learned these for major, minor, dominant, half diminished 7th chords. Practiced them around the key circle until I had them down cold.

At the same time, I learned the 3 note 7th chord shell voicings for major, minor, dominant and 1/2 diminished. So, I could see all the chord tones due to the arps, and the 3rd and 7th guide tones.

Then, taking tunes from the real book, I began to run thru the changes using the arps, and sliding into 3rds or 7ths of the next chord to connect. After a while, this became easier, and I started using chromatics to connect them.

The next step for me was to use substitutes and upper extension triads. This also with bitonals is where I am now. I am working on connecting all the above with scale framents, and just trying to phrase in ways that sounds musical rather than like arps & scales. Dunno if this was the sort of thing you were looking for.

Hi Derek - this is one of the best organized descriptions of learning arpeggios I've seen. Did you ever write up a pdf of this? Do you know of any good books dealing with bi-tonal/modulating arpeggios?

Thaks -

gt

[AlsoRan]

I was just made aware of the posts. I am going to try this 2 octave arpeggio pattern approach and see what happens. I will have a lot of spare time the next week and will incorporate it into my practice along with my triad studies.

Thanks!!

[JohnW400]

When learning arpeggios you should also learn them starting off of the other chord degrees as well as the root (3,5,7)

Learning them this way helps open up the neck to you and teaches you an economy of hand movement

If you only know how to play one version of a Cma7 starting on the 6th string at the 8th fret and don't know any other ways to play a major 7th, what happen if after the C, the next chord is Fma7 or Gma7? Lots of jumping around

You should pick a stationary note (C ex.) and play the ma7 first with C as the root. The next time play the ma7 with C as the 3rd (Abma7).

Following that , C as the 5th of the chord (Fma7) and lastly C as the 7th (Dbma7)

You should do this in different positions (CAGED, Jimmy Bruno's 5 patterns, 8 finger scale, or whatever )


After you get done with the major 7ths (all keys BTW) Change up to dominant 7th. Here the only chord that changes will be Db. C is the b7 of D so the last chord in the series will be D7 ( C7 Ab7 F7 D7) instead of Db

Continue this process of Keeping C as the common tone and change chord qualities until you've done all the 7ths (mi7, mi7b5, dim7, mi/ma7, 7#5 etc) With each new quality will be one chord different (except C as the root of course ) All keys.

[McCap]

.Would it be too much trouble for you to write the forms of those two arpeggios?

This question wasn't directed at me, but I happen to have two of the 7th arpeggio shapes (major and dom) the way I play them here:
Guitar for lazy People: 7th arpeggio shapes
(There's also hints on how to build the minor and half diminished, though I suppose you won't need them)
Cheers
Vidi

[Badge]

If you check out the justinguitar website, he has some excellent lessons and those charts on arpeggios.

[bako]

Following up on John's suggestion, 7th chords starting on C in all close inversions.

C E G B // C Eb G Ab // C E F A // C Db F Ab // Ma7

C E G Bb // C Eb Gb Ab // C Eb F A // C D F# A // 7

C E G# B // C E G Ab // B# D# E G# // C Db F A // Ma7+

C E G# Bb // C E Gb Ab // B# D E G# // C D F# A# // 7+

C E Gb B // C D (Ebb) G Ab // C E# F# A# // C Db F G (Abb) // Ma7b5

C E Gb Bb // C D (Ebb) Gb Ab // C E F# A# // C D F# Ab // 7b5

C Eb G B // C E G# A // C E F Ab // C Db Fb Ab // mMa7

C Eb G Bb // C E G A // C Eb F Ab // C D F A // m7

C Eb Gb B // C Eb G# A // C E# F# A // C Db Fb G (Abb) // dimMa7

C Eb Gb Bb // C Eb G A // C E F# A // C D F Ab // m7b5

C Eb Gb A (Bbb) // C Eb Gb A // C Eb F# A // C (Dbb) Eb Gb A (Bbb) // dim

C F G B // C D F# G // C E F Bb // C Db Gb Ab // Ma7Sus

C F G Bb // C D F G // C Eb F Bb // C D G A // 7Sus

[23skidoo]

I found them here on this site.... this page of diagrams is actually what led me to this forum....

Arpeggio 101 Part 2: The Arpeggio Diagrams

Has diagrams starting on each degree of the arp, two string patterns, etc. Also links to pages that explain some of the theory.....

Bako- great post.... something else to try to wrap my head around.....

[JohnW400]

you can find the stating point on this pdf that I've posted before.

I had to move th elast two to elimnate open strings 1/6 = starting finger / starting string