Your Best Must Have Jazz Guitar Books?

[grahambop]

That’s a good tip in the video about practising the rhythms in isolation, that’s the bit I find harder than reading the note pitches.

I sometimes pick a random tune in the ireal app and do some solo guitar improv on the chords, using shell chords like the guy in the video. It’s a great way to develop solo guitar stuff.

Incidentally I don’t know if this has been mentioned, but the Real Books are written in concert pitch, which is not how guitar parts are notated. So you may have to play the melody on the guitar an octave higher than it is written in the real books.

Not a hard-and-fast rule though, some work ok on the guitar as they are, you just have to use your judgement as to which way works/sounds best on the guitar.

[pamosmusic]

Soo... I should already know how to do the thing I’m asking how to do.... u do realize telling me the end result doesn't explain how to get there?!

I stated my context when I asked for help - I learnt classical guitar where everything I need to play a piece is written down on the staff. And while I do realize there is a big difference in the approach to music between the two genres, I just want to play a jazz song and sound like that particular song. Otherwise, I can pick a key and make my own music, which I can to some extent while sounding musical and intentional.

Getting back to my original question, a proper music sheet off someone's YT transcription for ex, gets me playing a jazz song as I hear it on an album. Or stuff from the Wolf Marshall books. Even the Miles Davies Omni was a million times more helpful in playing So What than a 1 page sheet I once saw. I tried looking at the Real Book but I don't know how to make it work for me - I feel there is not enough info there. To give you a blunt example as to why it doesn't work for me:
Where are the rest of the notes ?
When do I play the chords?
When do I play melody?
Do I play chords each bar? How many times per bar?
Do I mix chords and single notes in a bar?
Some pages in the Real Book don't even have the right note duration (i.e. everything is quarter notes when the recording clearly is much faster).

If the Real Book is only for fancy-pants pros or for band playing, just say so - dressing up git gud as some sort of mystical wisdom doesn’t make it less of a non-answer, it just makes it condescending....

I didn’t realize you were looking for a bullet pointed step by step process on how to use the real book starting from scratch. But my answer is still the answer.

for example:

Where are the rest of the notes ?
When do I play the chords?
When do I play melody?
Do I play chords each bar? How many times per bar?
Do I mix chords and single notes in a bar?

In the context of jazz, there is no music that tells you this. No one tells Wes which notes to use to embellish the simple melody. He just listens, sings, and plays a ton. No one tells Ed Bickert when to put the chord stabs in. He just studied big band arrangements in his free time. Try that. When do you play the melody? Is there a horn player? Piano player? Neither? Do you mix chords and melody in the bar? Ed Bickert says yes. Grant Green says no. Jim Hall says sometimes. Ted Green says what else would you do?

So these are actually questions that depend enormously on what you want to do and what situation you’re playing in.

Are you going to play in a trio?
With a backing track?
Solo guitar?
Just want to hear the melody?

Unfortunately, using the real book does require understanding the musical context. Do you have some voicings for the chords you see written? Can you play the melody in a couple different positions?

I don’t know if you can, so why would I give you some long prescriptive plan for how to use it?

If I assume you have a few chord voicings and that you want to play solo arrangements in your living room, then …

1. learn the melody using only the top two strings.
2. Learn the chords using simple shell voicings in both positions.
3. Try to harmonize the melody using the shell voicing with the melody note on top.
4. Hit the chord changes and don’t worry about harmonizing every note.
5. Prioritize the melody over the chords.
6. Don’t be afraid to separate the chords and the melody.

Is this helpful for you? No idea. But don’t pop off on people who are actually answering your question, just because the answer wasn’t the one you wanted to hear.

[GBRow]

1. learn the melody using only the top two strings.
2. Learn the chords using simple shell voicings in both positions.
3. Try to harmonize the melody using the shell voicing with the melody note on top.
4. Hit the chord changes and don’t worry about harmonizing every note.
5. Prioritize the melody over the chords.
6. Don’t be afraid to separate the chords and the melody.

Great advice.

[GBRow]

The best thing in learning to play jazz guitar is having good teachers in persons no doubt. But if one cannot afford for that, then the next best thing is having good books and youtube / online guitarist teachers, and working with them, I believe. Hence this thread.

[AllanAllen]

By arrangements you mean a full music score? Why are you saying it is not useful to play from one?

If you want to read an arrangement and play it, that's fine. You can learn a lot from an arrangement. We had a good run on this thread of Barry Galdbraith arrangements.

Barry Galbraith Chord Melody Arrangements


But jazz isn't playing someones arrangement, and it's not reading what someone else did. You have to take what they did and play around with it. Which doesn't sound like it interests you and that is fine. Playing classical music doesn't interest me, playing rock no longer interests me, it's all fine. I'm glad there are kids out there bashing away at their guitars screaming about the government, I hope that never stops, but I'm not doing it anymore.

Jazz is one of many parts of my life. I have a professional career as a data analyst, I have a wife and kids, I keep chickens and I'm into aquascaping/aquariums and woodworking. Fishing and regular exercise.

The worst idea to get is that a jazz musician is someone locked in a room practicing 14 hours a day. We know the lore that Coltrane, Parker, and Monk did it. But we also know they were crippled by substance abuse, and many mental disorders didn't exist or weren't named then. The way they behaved screams bipolar and obsessive compulsive to me. Short way to say, don't model their suffering as your ideal.

Just play some music you like and try to enjoy it.

[alltunes]

Chonker

where did you get the transcription/sheet music for the Bill Evans intro to So What?

before I go hunting does anybody know of a transcription of the Bill Evans “So What”what intro in treble clef

[Mick-7]

Chonker

where did you get the transcription/sheet music for the Bill Evans intro to So What?

before I go hunting does anybody know of a transcription of the Bill Evans “So What”what intro in treble clef

There are a few transcriptions on YouTube, for example:

[GBRow]

Having two versions (The C instrument and Bb instrument versions) of the Real Book is advantage in some ways, like tonight I was trying to play Blue Bosa looking into the C instrument copy. It has 3 flats on the key, which makes more complicated to play having to flat 3 notes A B and E. I kept on making mistakes on getting the flatted notes right, and wasn't sure even how the song sounded.

So I opened the Bb instrument version, and looked the staff. It has only 1 b for B, which made a lot easier to play the melody without mistakes, and immediately I was able to recognise the song which I recall hearing it before, and was able to play better.

[AllanAllen]

Funny, I have the same problem with sharps. Anything with a C# messes me up.

[GBRow]

Funny, I have the same problem with sharps. Anything with a C# messes me up.

For me the key of C is easiest to play, because there are no # or b to worry about. I could get away with 1 or maximum 2 # or b to consider in a song. When there are 3 or more of them in a song, it gets confusing, and I keep forget which notes need to be taken care of, and make many mistakes.

I then write down all the notes which need to be flatted or sharped with a pencil before playing. It is a bit of hassle, and many times I don't bother writing them down due to laziness, just play making mistakes, and played melody sound unrecognizable. Maybe this too, I am hoping it will get more familiar and easier with practice.

Another problem is the chords. I need to learn the must-know jazz chords to be able to play with melody. Need to learn shell voicing chords and drop 2 & 3 chords too. Too much to learn in Jazz guitar, I got rid of the Guitar Acquisition Syndrome. I no longer look for new guitars. No time and no energy to think about guitars. I just need one or two guitars most comfortable, quick and easy to pick up and play.

[pamosmusic]

I kept on making mistakes on getting the flatted notes right, and wasn't sure even how the song sounded.

This would be an example of the pitfalls of the real books. You have to listen to the tune. The important parts of the music won’t be on the page.

[Unclegrumpy]

It’s not a pitfall of the Real Book if you misread, misfinger or don’t understand the key signature. That’s strictly on the player.

While It’s always better to listen to a tune before attempting to play it, that probably won’t immediately guarantee success.

[AllanAllen]

For me the key of C is easiest to play, because there are no # or b to worry about. I could get away with 1 or maximum 2 # or b to consider in a song. When there are 3 or more of them in a song, it gets confusing, and I keep forget which notes need to be taken care of, and make many mistakes.

I then write down all the notes which need to be flatted or sharped with a pencil before playing. It is a bit of hassle, and many times I don't bother writing them down due to laziness, just play making mistakes, and played melody sound unrecognizable. Maybe this too, I am hoping it will get more familiar and easier with practice.

Another problem is the chords. I need to learn the must-know jazz chords to be able to play with melody. Need to learn shell voicing chords and drop 2 & 3 chords too. Too much to learn in Jazz guitar, I got rid of the Guitar Acquisition Syndrome. I no longer look for new guitars. No time and no energy to think about guitars. I just need one or two guitars most comfortable, quick and easy to pick up and play.

Seriously, watch this, you need to know less than you think to get started.

[pamosmusic]

It’s not a pitfall of the Real Book if you misread, misfinger or don’t understand the key signature. That’s strictly on the player.

While It’s always better to listen to a tune before attempting to play it, that probably won’t immediately guarantee success.

And if you play it perfectly without knowing how to interpret it will almost certainly sound bad anyway

[GBRow]

Seriously, watch this, you need to know less than you think to get started.

Great video. He is a great teacher.

[pamosmusic]

Another problem is the chords. I need to learn the must-know jazz chords to be able to play with melody. Need to learn shell voicing chords and drop 2 & 3 chords too.

Shells, yes.

Drop 2s and drop 3s, not so much.

[ShiftyCanuck]

Joe Pass: Guitar Style
Jim Hall: Explorig Jazz Guitar

[jazzloverfat]

If you want to read an arrangement and play it, that's fine. You can learn a lot from an arrangement.
But jazz isn't playing someones arrangement, and it's not reading what someone else did. You have to take what they did and play around with it. Which doesn't sound like it interests you and that is fine.
Just play some music you like and try to enjoy it.

Right, I think I get it now re: the Realbook, sort-of like flashcards when doing a speech. Not for me (yet?).

Re: playing around w a tune or improv, it's not that it doesn't interest me, it's just that I was under the impression that if one plays a song it is that song, more or less as composed. And then improv is something else and entirely new that a band does on the spot (so not a particular song one is trying to play).
Now it finally clicked that within the melody of a song a jazz musician plays whatever in that song's key.

I would like to be able to improv and attempts were made when I had teachers and I do play stuff on my own without any sort of music sheet. I just never really thought of doing so with an established song, short of stealing a bar or two and then going off on my own.

And you are so right, playing and having fun is all that matters in the end!

(As an aside, I too love aquascaping and one of my guilty pleasures is to watch a YT channel that does some pretty cool stuff w aquariums and terrariums )

You need to know enough about jazz chords to interpret the chord symbols with appropriate chords on the guitar. It helps to hear the record so you know where to play the chords rhythmically.

Got it... jazz chords as written in the Realbook is something I struggle to read. I know the basics of constructing a chord, but letters and numbers slow me down - i have to think about the notes and count mentally (Oh, and tabs too! It's something that weirds people out - but I can't really deal with them and i find them distracting to the point where I tape them over in a book or printed score.)
And this is why I am looking for transcriptions, cuz if i see the notes on the staff, my left hand knows exactly what to do.
Incidentally, it's also one of the reasons I like Grant Green so much - he never (ok, rarely) plays chords haha.

I didn’t realize you were looking for a bullet pointed step by step process on how to use the real book starting from scratch.

1. Do you have some voicings for the chords you see written?
2. Can you play the melody in a couple different positions?

English is not my first language, but a "how does one do this or that" question kinda implies a request for an explanation of the process no? Sorry if I wasn't clear enough ¯\_("/)_/¯ but I maintain what I said and it's not picking and choosing... your second post is helpful; the first one is not an answer, at least in my context.

Anyways, thank you for the pointers, will give this a try in parallel with a method book which it seems I desperately need to follow. Know of one that's not boring? I tried Jody Fischer's and while it is full of info, I just couldn't motivate myself to follow it through and ended up back to noodling haha. I downloaded a copy of Guitarists Intro to Jazz to see if it can work for me or not and I will have another look at the Micky Baker books everyone kept mentioning - I just hope it doesn't assume i already know jazz stuff
And to answer your other questions,
1. Don't really know chord voicings but if you put a chord on the staff for me to see then I could probably be able to extrapolate different voicings.
2. Yep




TY all !

[grahambop]

Now it finally clicked that within the melody of a song a jazz musician plays whatever in that song's key.

It’s a bit more precise than that, they usually improvise using the chord progression of the song and following the same bar structure. So in the case of So What, you would improvise over D minor for 16 bars, then Eb minor for 8 bars, then D minor again for 8 bars (i.e. keeping to the 32-bar form and chord progression of the tune). Then repeat that until you run out of ideas and let the next person have a go (!)

Sometimes within the improvised solo, they may make some references to the melody if they want to.

[grahambop]

By the way the ‘Lessons’ section of this forum has lots of useful information about jazz guitar chords etc.

Free Jazz Guitar Lessons

[alltunes]

I think much jazz pedagogy has things backwards. For me the best way of going about things is to learn songs. Choose what songs you want to learn because you love them. THEN go looking for resources on how to approach that song. Lead sheets, YTs, books etc. Everything you learn should be applied to songs you want to play. One resource will not do it all. Be your own jazz resource curator. That approach helps quiet down all the noise out there.

[pamosmusic]

I think much jazz pedagogy has things backwards. For me the best way of going about things is to learn songs. Choose what songs you want to learn because you love them. THEN go looking for resources on how to approach that song. Lead sheets, YTs, books etc. Everything you learn should be applied to songs you want to play. One resource will not do it all. Be your own jazz resource curator. That approach helps quiet down all the noise out there.

To be fair, I think this is a bit of a misconception about jazz pedagogy.

It’s definitely out there. YouTube can really skew this way, mostly because learning a tune is a deep process and the medium isn’t always conducive to that sort of thing, especially considering the effort it would require for the incentives involved.

But a 50 tune mandatory list for sophomore checkpoints is pretty much ubiquitous in jazz program these days. There are exceptions for sure, and wherever there are people teaching there will be people doing it in the laziest way they can. But the idea that jazz teachers are routinely teaching modes and spider drills at the expense of tunes is kind of not descriptive at this point.

I think maybe part of that comes from people like Mick Goodrick and a misunderstanding of what they’re doing. Generally offering sort of advanced material that was meant for people who already have a good bit of the musical context established, or newer players with the discipline to work on both in tandem.

So people see his charts and tables and go “who needs this sh**” when the answer is “not you right now.”

[pamosmusic]

Also music ed generally in the last twenty years or so has been trying to make big moves back toward source material and the ears

[AllanAllen]

So people see his charts and tables and go “who needs this sh**” when the answer is “not you right now.”

This was literally my experience.

[Mick-7]

Jazz chords as written in the Realbook is something I struggle to read. I know the basics of constructing a chord, but letters and numbers slow me down - i have to think about the notes and count mentally.

This is from a Herb Ellis book: