New to playing jazz

[James W]

I think this comes down to a difference of paradigm.

Bill Evans famously said jazz 'is not a what, but a how.'

However, it seems to me that Bill Evans was pretty bloody well versed in the 'what' of the music that came from before him, to judge from his early recordings, and I feel that's true of all the progressive players of his generation. We've ended up at the point where the 'how' squeezed out the 'what' in a lot of education. Now, with so much interest in Barry's way of doing things, the pendulum may be making its way back.

I started like many in classes run by musicians deeply influenced by Aebersold, Levine and the chord scale approach. These were good musicians with good intentions. the emphasis was always - to quote Aebersold - 'anyone can improvise!' and the idea of free expression from the get go was an unwritten basic core value.

When I walked into my first Barry class it was a bit of culture shock. Here was an Improvisation workshop where we were doing NO improvisation. Instead, we were being instructed in things to play and how to come up with things to play that sounded like idiomatic bebop. And the whole class was playing these lines back in unison. Old school, almost military at times.

So this is generally what I have in mind when I say - learn jazz and improvisation? Pick one. Maybe in Bill Evans terms - the 'how', or the 'what'?

You don't have to stay on that path for ever, but it's good to know what you are looking for out of the process.

IMO the best path straddles both the how and the what.

[James W]

Two questions for you if you please:

1. What does jazz sound like?
2. What is jazz tradition?

Good questions.

[RLetson]

Seems to me that doing the How comes out of having absorbed a lot of the What. But then, my education in the arts in general was mostly historical, with the What considered as a tradition. That's how literature and the visual arts used to be taught about, intersecting with less-chronological theoretical material. So a good poetry course examined a chronologically broad range of particular texts, with analytical (and more abstract) tools drawn from prosody, linguistics, and rhetoric applied as needed along the way. (A bad poetry course might try to start with prosody and somehow get to making sense of particular poems, but to my mind that's quite backwards. Art first, technical analysis to follow as needed.)

So music, specifically jazz. Given the range of exemplars produced over the last century or so, it's pretty obvious that jazz is a way of executing a tune. (E.g., Coltrane's "My Favorite Things.") And once the how-does-that-operate mechanisms are extracted from the execution, it's possible to generate new meant-to-be-jazz-from-the-start exemplars or apply the "rules" to existing musical texts--to, as they used to say, jazz 'em up. Duh.

Given that the historical body of work we call "jazz" is also enormously varied, as are its technical demands, the What/How matrix is is all interconnected and intertwined, but what I've noticed in my own musical (not jazz, and not systematic) journey is that the How is best addressed when it's needed to understand or enable a particular What, and that understanding then gets applied to other What-like situations. A pedagogical system selects and assembles and (one hopes) optimizes a bunch of How/What observations. Like a well-designed intro to poetry course.

I once had to take over a colleague's intro to poetry course on very short notice. So on the first day of class, I wrote Robert Frost's "The Span of Life" on the blackboard:

The old dog barks backward without looking up.
I can remember when he was a pup.

That provided plenty of class activity while I nailed down the rest of the course. (Which, fortunately, had as its textbook John Ciardi's How Does a Poem Mean?)

[pauln]

Ahh, poetry... I ran across this the other day, no author.

I thought I had insulated myself from the world
In the grave I dug for myself as home,
But then one day they cornered me in my coffin
And would not leave me alone,
Those who had before then to me remained unknown.

[AllanAllen]

8 count


BY CHARLES BUKOWSki

from my bed

I watch

3 birds

on a telephone

wire.



one flies

off.

then

another.



one is left,

then

it too

is gone.



my typewriter is

tombstone

still.



and I am

reduced to bird

watching.



just thought I'd

let you

know,

fucker.

[jazzloverfat]

Hi everyone!

I just discovered this wonderful forum, and I absolutely love it already!

I've been playing guitar on my own for about two years now, mostly by ear and through tabs. However, I've recently realized I have no idea about music theory, including jazz theory.

I'm particularly looking for recommendations on structured resources—ideally books, courses, or programs where everything comes from one cohesive place, rather than jumping between scattered info. A clear, step-by-step plan on what to learn first (like scales, chords, harmony, etc.) would be perfect for someone like me who's self-taught

Also, if you have any other jazz recommendations or tips, I'd love to hear them!

Thank you!

Seeing as the discussion went seriously off topic and no real advice was given based on your needs, I'll try to suggest 2 titles for you. I was in the same spot as you were not that long ago after learning classical for a few years - but only as a hobby.

I came here looking for resources hoping to find something similar to what you are looking for and the best thing I found was what I'm gonna recommend first: get Jody Fisher's Complete Jazz Guitar. Starts off with basic stuff and gradually gets deeper into how to play jazz. I like it because it is structured and has plenty of clear, practical advice and exercises. It has 3 books in one - beginner, intermediate and advanced - and I think once you are at least half way through with the beginner part you can look at the next title I am going to recommend: Advancing Guitarist - Mick Goodrick. It's not a method book or a course, but it makes you think about what you play and it gives you ideas on how to find your own voice. But again, don't rush into this one, make sure you get a basic grasp of the theory part from Complete Jazz Guitar first.
If you want I can DM you a copy of both, though these books are so good they are really worth owning as hard copies.

As for the Barry Harris recommendation, honestly, don't bother. It is not for beginners and whoever recommends that to a noob has no idea what they are talking about. Now if you have the basics down and you know how the grammar of music works, then yes, it will probably be useful - at least that's what my current teacher said (though he also questioned why this and not Ted Green if one plays guitar). But until then don't bother. It's like learning to write Shakespeare when you don't know what past simple is.

[Litterick]

For Sidney Bechet

That note you hold, narrowing and rising, shakes
Like New Orleans reflected on the water,
And in all ears appropriate falsehood wakes,

Building for some a legendary Quarter
Of balconies, flower-baskets and quadrilles,
Everyone making love and going shares—

Oh, play that thing! Mute glorious Storyvilles
Others may license, grouping around their chairs
Sporting-house girls like circus tigers (priced

Far above rubies) to pretend their fads,
While scholars manqués nod around unnoticed
Wrapped up in personnels like old plaids.

On me your voice falls as they say love should,
Like an enormous yes. My Crescent City
Is where your speech alone is understood,

And greeted as the natural noise of good,
Scattering long-haired grief and scored pity.


Philip Larkin

[olliehalsall]

'Modern Jazz Guitar Technique' by Adrian Ingram is a really nice book I picked up recently. Not too heavy going for beginners/intermediates but quite comprehensive. Divided into three parts/books.

[garybaldy]

Seeing as the discussion went seriously off topic and no real advice was given based on your needs, I'll try to suggest 2 titles for you. I was in the same spot as you were not that long ago after learning classical for a few years - but only as a hobby.

I came here looking for resources hoping to find something similar to what you are looking for and the best thing I found was what I'm gonna recommend first: get Jody Fisher's Complete Jazz Guitar. Starts off with basic stuff and gradually gets deeper into how to play jazz. I like it because it is structured and has plenty of clear, practical advice and exercises. It has 3 books in one - beginner, intermediate and advanced - and I think once you are at least half way through with the beginner part you can look at the next title I am going to recommend: Advancing Guitarist - Mick Goodrick. It's not a method book or a course, but it makes you think about what you play and it gives you ideas on how to find your own voice. But again, don't rush into this one, make sure you get a basic grasp of the theory part from Complete Jazz Guitar first.
If you want I can DM you a copy of both, though these books are so good they are really worth owning as hard copies.

As for the Barry Harris recommendation, honestly, don't bother. It is not for beginners and whoever recommends that to a noob has no idea what they are talking about. Now if you have the basics down and you know how the grammar of music, then yes, it will probably be useful - at least that's what my current teacher said (though he also questioned why this and not Ted Green if one plays guitar). But until then don't bother. It's like learning to write Shakespeare when you don't know what is past simple.

Quote OP: "any other jazz recommendations or tips, I'd love to hear them!"
I believe this part of the OP's needs has been fulfilled or partially fulfilled by members including myself.

[trailmixer]

Learn these 3 things. Shouldn't take too long (20 mins or less):

1. what a major scale is
2. how to build diatonic chords in a major scale
3. how to categorise the 7 diatonic chords in terms of function (only 3 categories)

Then learn this 1 thing. This might take a while (30 mins).

4. how to play diatonic chords using the 6th string, 4th string, and 3rd string (Freddie Green shell voicings/fingerings)
- why it's important to play smaller chords in jazz
- why sometimes using the 4th and 3rd strings (without the 6th string) is all you need to play chords

---------------

It's far too early for you to get into serious theory and 'jazz theory'. Don't worry about complicated things now like melodies, licks, exotic scales, arpeggios, or bebop just yet. Know the basics I listed above.

Be able to play Freddie Green shell voicings/chords in a four-to-the-bar style to a metronome. I know that this might not sound impressive to you, but doing this will serve you very well down the road. You must play to a click and record yourself. I wish I had started sooner. The sooner you do it, the faster you will progress as a musician.

Don't feel the need to rush through any of this. Put in some good amount of time learning to play in this style for a few weeks or months. Enjoy the slow process. As a beginner, enjoy how manageable this is! (Man, I wish I could go back and do this all over again for the first time because it made me really happy.) Don't stress more complex stuff now. Just work on getting a nice, good sound with solid time; do this and musicians will want to play with you!

Enjoy the fact that you can get started playing in the jazz tradition without soloing/improvising. Don't make the mistake of thinking, "I need to play all that complex chromatic type stuff for my music to sound like 'jazz'." No. Four-to-the-bar is simple but valid jazz and good music.

---------------

Here are some tunes you can apply your Freddie Green skills

1) C Jam Blues
2) Moonglow
3) Lady Be Good

This will keep you busy for many weeks.

Enjoy the learning!

---------------

Edit: Don't underestimate how powerful and musical this style can be. You can make this style sound very harmonically advanced when you get more experience playing. Here's a Japanese guitarist who transcribed guitarist Jim Hall's legendary Freddie Green comping style behind pianist Bill Evans on the tune 'My Funny Valentine':

(slower)

(faster)

Bill Evans + Jim Hall (see 3:08)

Here's Jim Hall talking about Freddie Green and jazz guitar.

I think this is great advice. I have discovered on my own beginner's journey that it is really, really difficult to follow what's going on theoretically or practically without having a basic foundation in jazz harmony and how to play along with it in time. Once you have a decent grasp on this, you can start to branch out in all sorts of parallel tracks depending on what interests you most.

[brent.h]

Javleme, if you're still around and if you've decided to try out the Freddie Green stuff I mentioned, do also pay attention to how the Japanese guitarist's fretting hand looks when playing the chords.

Notice how for the majority of the time, the middle finger is on the 6th string, the index on the 4th string, and the ring/little finger is on the 3rd string. Learning to move up and down the guitar neck with your hand/fingers in this configuration will help you move smoothly as you play and change chords. And when you get smoother in your movements, your speed will go up.

Another benefit of playing in this style is that it forces your entire hand to move. This will prepare you extremely well for learning to play jazz solos horizontally across the neck and not be stuck in pentatonic boxes. When you're able to move your hand quickly to another area, you have greater access to other notes.

Playing Freddie Green stuff is like the 'Wax On, Wax Off' of jazz guitar.

[pamosmusic]

Playing Freddie Green stuff is like the 'Wax On, Wax Off' of jazz guitar.

Ha!

Nice. I'm going to steal that for sure.

[docsteve]

Good questions.

If you need to ask you don’t need to know.


Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk

[rpjazzguitar]

I think this is great advice. I have discovered on my own beginner's journey that it is really, really difficult to follow what's going on theoretically or practically without having a basic foundation in jazz harmony and how to play along with it in time. Once you have a decent grasp on this, you can start to branch out in all sorts of parallel tracks depending on what interests you most.

Excellent player. He's mastered knowing what chords to play to keep changing every quarter note. So if there are 4 beats for a particular chord according to the chart, he plays 4 separate chords that work and create a subtle countermelody. Not as simple as it might seem.