What do I really need to practice

[Mick-7]

For an F dominant he's got A Eb Ab Db Gb. F7b9#9b13.

Ignoring the A and the bassist for a moment, that's Eb Ab Db Gb, which is a common stack of fourths.

I never noticed that a stack of fourths can be used like that.

It's a chord from the related altered dominant scale, i.e., Gb melodic minor.

[rpjazzguitar]

Might be simpler to think of it as the major pentatonic of the tritone, give or take a B.

Of course, building from the ground up that way, it would take me a while to see the stack'o'4s grip with the A below it. And, an F below that.

I'm going to work it into some songs in the shed and see if it infiltrates my playing.

[Mick-7]

Might be simpler to think of it as the major pentatonic of the tritone, give or take a B.

Of course, building from the ground up that way, it would take me a while to see the stack'o'4s grip with the A below it. And, an F below that.

I'm going to work it into some songs in the shed and see if it infiltrates my playing.

Yes, that was my aim with this, but triads composed of 4ths rather than thirds could be used. In fact, I think that would be productive, I'll try it. -- Slonimsky Curiosities

[rpjazzguitar]

I find it easy to get overwhelmed by too many options.

So, I'm starting with Dm9 G7b9#9b13 Cmaj9.

xx3355 xx3344 xx2433 and thinking about as Dm7 Db6/9 Cmaj(something).

Which, then gives me xx 10 10 10 12 to xx8899 (or xx10 10 11 11) to a Ctonicsomething, maybe C69.

And, likewise for all the other ii V I's I use. And, I can get that low B in some of them.

Then 11 more keys, some enharmonic equivalents and I've achieved a small expansion of my comping vocab.

[AllanAllen]

For the first progression, xx2233 is a nice C6/9 grip

[GuyBoden]

Bb blues … one chorus rooted shells, one chorus two note rootless shells, one chorus roots on top, then a few choruses just playing for you goobers.

Three notes or less, all 3/7 shells on the D/G strings.

As per usual, unaccompanied it’s probably more fancy pants than it would be someone were soloing

Excellent. Some very nice sounding simple voicings that when added together make a nice sounding complexity of movement.

Well done.

[Mick-7]

I find it easy to get overwhelmed by too many options.

So, I'm starting with Dm9 G7b9#9b13 Cmaj9.

xx3355 xx3344 xx2433 and thinking about as Dm7 Db6/9 Cmaj(something).

Which, then gives me xx 10 10 10 12 to xx8899 (or xx10 10 11 11) to a Ctonicsomething, maybe C69.

And, likewise for all the other ii V I's I use. And, I can get that low B in some of them.

Then 11 more keys, some enharmonic equivalents and I've achieved a small expansion of my comping vocab.

Here is an example of constructing stacked 4th chords from a scale (melodic minor in this case), which is something it would be good for me to practice.

[emanresu]

Essentials
good groovy feel. must feel good. make myself happy.
meaningful phrases from the hip by ear.. a lot of earjobs
comp

and then some garnish.

[rpjazzguitar]

Here is an example of constructing stacked 4th chords from a scale (melodic minor in this case), which is something it would be good for me to practice.

Interesting way to do it.

I started with xx2233 and moved it through Gmaj. That produces just a few grips. I generally use them in place of Gmaj7/maj6, but they can be used with any of the usual chords from the harmonized major scale, if you don't lean too hard.

Then, I flatted the B to Bb and did it again, this time moving through G melodic minor. One extra grip.

Per Mark Levine, every chord from a melodic minor is the same chord. I tried it. They can sound different, but they all work in place of each other, give or take taste.

So, for melodic minor, I now had 7 ways to play each of the usual chords ie Gminmaj7/Gm6, Asusb9, Bb^7#5 etc. That is, for any one of them, I could play that chord and then move it through the melmin scale and substitute any of those chords for the first one.

For me, the challenge was shrinking it to manageable proportions. I ended up with just a couple of grips I liked for which I could find uses on the fly.

Now, this was just generated by xx2233. Per Levine, you could use any combination of notes within the scale and do the same thing. It's not an infinite number of possibilities, but it might as well be.

So, now for example, when I see x7678x I think of it as Ealt from Fmelmin (it isn't, but it's adjacent). I know that xx3554 will work, as will, xx10,10,11,12. I may be able to remember that every voicing I know from G7susb9, Cmaj/Ab (Ab^7#5), Bb7#11, C7b13, Dm7b5, E alt -- and every voicing I can generate by moving them through Fmelmin, will work.

Frankly, I couldn't get very far with the mental gymnastics. Just too much to assimilate. Maybe the goal would be to have a section of your brain that would be labeled Fmelmin. And, within it you'd have various grips moved through the Fmelmin scale, each one generating 6 more chords. And, then, you'd be able to hear or see (if you're reading) a chord symbol and know all the options you'd worked out. And, then do that for 12 keys and a few useful enharmonic equivalents.

I think, imagine the flexibility! But, it's overwhelming.

[AllanAllen]

I just love chords. I’ve been working on your melodic minor stuff. I run the grips on the top and middle four like a linear scale. I still need to peek at the sheet if I miss a few days.

[Mick-7]

Per Mark Levine, every chord from a melodic minor is the same chord. I tried it. They can sound different, but they all work in place of each other, give or take taste.

Every chord in my previous example could be considered a type of Bb7 or E7 dominant chord and a few could also be used as min.7 or maj.7(b5) chords, but I'm not sure I agree with the idea that "they all work in place of each other." If you overdo them, the harmony get hazy, which can work for modal tunes but not for standards.

[rpjazzguitar]

Every chord in my previous example could be considered a type of Bb7 or E7 dominant chord and a few could also be used as min.7 or maj.7(b5) chords, but I'm not sure I agree with the idea that "they all work in place of each other." If you overdo them, the harmony get hazy, which can work for modal tunes but not for standards.

I was aware that they were melmin. I think you’re right that the idea can be overdone. I tried it with a tune called Rapaj De Bem. 8 beats F^7 then 8 beats of Bb7#11. Melodr in bar 3 is an Ab. To my ear all the Fmelmin chords work in place of Bb7#11. Some better than others.

[Christian Miller]

What works great for the altered scale doesn’t always work so well for the other melodic minor modes. So the Db major pentatonic gives you all the cool altered colours on G7, but on Db7 will sound like, well, the Db major pentatonic.


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[emanresu]

This feels the most natural usage of melodic minor to me:
a7 to dm.mp3 - Google Drive
...and most natural way to treat the minor, really.

[Mick-7]

This feels the most natural usage of melodic minor to me:
a7 to dm.mp3 - Google Drive
...and most natural way to treat the minor, really.

But that will give you only one altered tone over A7, the b13th (F), D harmonic minor over A7/Dm gives you the b9th (Bb) too.

[emanresu]

But that will give you only one altered tone over A7, the b13th (F), D harmonic minor over A7/Dm gives you the b9th (Bb) too.

I dream of doing the bare minimum and being applauded for it.

[Mick-7]

I dream of doing the bare minimum and being applauded for it.

That can work until a piano player who doesn't share your daydream leans on a A13 chord beneath your D melodic minor phrases and makes them sound atrocious.

[pamosmusic]

That can work until a piano player who doesn't share your daydream leans on a A13 chord beneath your D melodic minor phrases and makes them sound atrocious.

Doubt it would matter that much.

unless they sound atrocious already, that is.

[emanresu]

Piano players have different dreams.

[AllanAllen]

Piano players have different dreams.

Ten fingers, ten notes.

[emanresu]

Yes. 7 fingers is the scale. Any scale. But those 3 leftover fingers are ABOVE THE LAW!

[AllanAllen]

nice shell work at 2:42

[GuyBoden]

nice shell work at 2:42

Wow, that is top quality playing at a very, very high level. Thanks for posting this.

[AdroitMage]

Wow, that is top quality playing at a very, very high level. Thanks for posting this.

Fantastic playing, he is one of the most accomplished players out there IMO.

[Christian Miller]

Seeing him tomorrow night. Duo - should be fun!