Got Covid.

[swampguide]

It's not absurd at all. It's honor and it's true bravery. Lt Commander John McCain was offered release when he was a POW in Vietnam, but he refused to violate the military code of conduct and leave before his fellow POWs who'd been in captivity longer than he was. There was a time when such loyalty, sentiment, and bravery was commonplace among Americans. Sadly, it seems to have gone the way of good cheap beer. The closest many Americans and our leaders come to that level of bravery today is risking ridicule by wearing a mask in public while our elected officials (including some who dodged the draft) mock soldiers who were captured, gold star families, and the disabled.

He's not a war hero, he's a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren't captured, okay? I hate to tell you.

Oww... my foot hurts...

[RLetson]

A fella should be, um, spurred on by mere foot discomfort.

I'll see myself out.

[DawgBone]

Correct, an employee is not a slave. They are free to find another workplace where they are not required to be vaccinated. Surely if opposition to vaccination is significant, there must be many other employers willing to hire those who choose not to be vaccinated.

This kinda argument is why they made laws against discrimination on the basis of color for housing and employment. "You can just find someone who will rent to colored folk".That worked our real well for minorities didn't it? "Hey they found places to live!" Just not at your lunch counter eh? Fortunately enough opposition arose that you are now possibly forced to work near someone unvaxxed or maybe have to sit in a cubicle next to a black guy. How awful. You can always find a different home or job if you don't like it, right? You're 70 years behind the curve my man.

[swampguide]

This kinda argument is why they made laws against discrimination on the basis of color for housing and employment. "You can just find someone who will rent to colored folk".That worked our real well for minorities didn't it? "Hey they found places to live!" Just not at your lunch counter eh? Fortunately enough opposition arose that you are now possibly forced to work near someone unvaxxed or maybe have to sit in a cubicle next to a black guy. How awful. You can always find a different home or job if you don't like it, right? You're 70 years behind the curve my man.

You're equating employers requiring vaccination based on the best scientific information currently available with racial persecution? Wow...Vaccines work - this is a scientifically proven fact. Lives have been saved and diseases eradicated because of vaccines. Racial persecution was never backed by valid science.

I don't think there's much point in continuing to try and discuss this any further with you - it's hopeless.

[DawgBone]

You're equating employers requiring vaccination based on the best scientific information currently available with racial persecution? Wow...Vaccines work - this is a scientifically proven fact. Lives have been saved and diseases eradicated because of vaccines. Racial persecution was never backed by valid science.

I don't think there's much point in continuing to try and discuss this any further with you - it's hopeless.

No kidding you don't want to continue, you are looking kinda like a bigot.

It's foolish sounding to suggest treating the unvaxxed the same way non-whites were treated in the past. Thanks to prohibitions put in place after WWII era Germany due to their frankenstein medical experiments on prisoners you don't get to have your way forcing people to take treatments they don't want so I guess it isn't working out in your favor.

As for the often heard talking point that vaccines have eliminated all these diseases blah blah. Looking at the data shows stuff like tetanus on the decrease prior to the release of the vaccine, thanks to developments in proper wound care, so you are just making blanket statements which are never fully accurate. Because of all these new things I've discovered I have opted to never take a vaccine again. Not even for my dogs. Careful, I'll give you warts!

[swampguide]

No kidding you don't want to continue, you are looking kinda like a bigot.

It's foolish sounding to suggest treating the unvaxxed the same way non-whites were treated in the past. Thanks to prohibitions put in place after WWII era Germany due to their frankenstein medical experiments on prisoners you don't get to have your way forcing people to take treatments they don't want so I guess it isn't working out in your favor.

As for the often heard talking point that vaccines have eliminated all these diseases blah blah. Looking at the data shows stuff like tetanus on the decrease prior to the release of the vaccine, thanks to developments in proper wound care, so you are just making blanket statements which are never fully accurate. Because of all these new things I've discovered I have opted to never take a vaccine again. Not even for my dogs. Careful, I'll give you warts!

Accusing me of being of bigot is going too far. You've been pretty offensive in this thread - calling people cowards and such. I hope the moderators of this forum are watching this thread. In my opinion you don't belong here - whatever you may know about jazz guitar.

[DawgBone]

Accusing me of being of bigot is going too far. You've been pretty offensive in this thread - calling people cowards and such. I hope the moderators of this forum are watching this thread. In my opinion you don't belong here - whatever you may know about jazz guitar.

I thought you were done? You made yourself out to be a bigot of a sort and if you are scared of a virus that is 99.7% survivable then yes, that is cowardice. The mods or admin can do as they please, thats exactly how I live my life so why would I criticize them for doing so? Whatever they choose is cool with me. I don't care. I'm just not laying down for your shit or anyone else's. Now be a good boy and try to have them shut me up so you can control the narrative because you can't do it alone. Best-dawgbone.

[Christian Miller]

Good heavens man, you actually think people want actual data? This is the internet! People hiding behind aliases enjoy bullying others and saying whatever they please! Don't confuse them with facts, they cling to their (wrong) notions of freedom. So if we end up losing an older player like Kenny Burrell or some to COVID, that's the cost of freedom I guess.

Seriously, good data.

We lost Barry to COVID. Many others.

[Christian Miller]

Several US members seem to distrust the US government on this. Do you also believe the other governments around the world, such as Russia, China and most of those in Europe, who implemented similar lockdown, masking and vaccination policies, were in cahoots with the US government? Wouldn't this be an incredible and unheralded example of global government cooperation?

Well firstly, nothing outside of America really exists. (I am myself my own sock puppet and I put my accent on to confuse the Germans who also don’t exist)

Secondly, these theories are always neat. It’s in a sense more comforting to think that omnicompetent and omniscient entities are manipulating everything as opposed to the reality where people with limited information are often making decisions that affect millions of lives - and may make imperfect choices even when these decisions are made in good faith by competent authorities, which frighteningly is not always the case as we are finding out in great detail here in the UK. (Although the UK is a figment of the imagination of course.)

Otoh in the former scenario you also get to be the Main Character in your own spy thriller, uncovering deeply buried secrets. While on the toilet. Watching a podcast. As opposed to a one of untold millions, bewildered by a complex world like everyone else. And who wants to be one of those losers?

For myself I actually take great comfort in the second scenario. But I am a bit weird.

[jazzgtrl4]

The government used intimidation, guilt trips, and coercion to get people to take it which gave it a sinister air so to me it didn't matter what all the data said. Only a piece of shit pushes drugs on someone that doesn't want to take them. Even street thugs don't behave that way peddling their wares. From that behavior alone I could deduce that taking it was a piss poor idea.

I heard so many people proudly say "I did the research" with regard to the vaccine. No dude, it's experimental. You ARE the research.

this dude was my fav

[mr. beaumont]

I thought you were done? You made yourself out to be a bigot of a sort and if you are scared of a virus that is 99.7% survivable then yes, that is cowardice. The mods or admin can do as they please, thats exactly how I live my life so why would I criticize them for doing so? Whatever they choose is cool with me. I don't care. I'm just not laying down for your shit or anyone else's. Now be a good boy and try to have them shut me up so you can control the narrative because you can't do it alone. Best-dawgbone.

The mods? Now you're inventing people who don't exist who persecute you. Damn, you really are American.

[northernbreed]

I thought you were done? You made yourself out to be a bigot of a sort and if you are scared of a virus that is 99.7% survivable then yes, that is cowardice. The mods or admin can do as they please, thats exactly how I live my life so why would I criticize them for doing so? Whatever they choose is cool with me. I don't care. I'm just not laying down for your shit or anyone else's. Now be a good boy and try to have them shut me up so you can control the narrative because you can't do it alone. Best-dawgbone.

Why your sad ass hasn’t been banned here is a mystery to me. God, you are insufferable.

[princeplanet]

Yes I did read your previous line and thought it very strange that the next comment was that one. I did qualify my thought by saying if the danger was imminent people would most likely rethink their position. I made my choices, you made yours, and we are both here to talk about it. No right, no wrong just different perspectives... I can't see debating the what ifs.

Well, I don't think it's strange to consider opposing views, it's what a fence sitter does. Not seeing too much of it around here ...

As for whether it's worth debating the "what if's"... I think it's core to the free choice discussion. If it's a war, or 100% lethal new ebola strain, should you, or should you not be allowed to choose whether or not to obey a Govt enforced curfew? And at what point of lethality do we relax mandatory measures, 75%, 50%?
0.3% ?? ...

As I say, the tragedy is that from this year onwards, any 90+% lethal new virus will probably take many months if not longer to be acknowledged by a suspicious public. We will die whilst deciding whether or not to trust the data, on both sides... Let's face it, most Govts fucked up with Covid, they played the "better safe than sorry" card where, with hindsight, we now realise it's better to be sure before either. But it's a brave Govt that plays chicken with a pandemic - being prepared to sacrifice collateral damage whilst assessing the real risk - and most Govts are anything but brave, amirite?

[AllanAllen]

Thumbs down to this thread.

[Dave70]

Covid threads should be blacklisted.

[princeplanet]

Covid threads should be blacklisted.

Interesting, why?

[bluenote61]

Covid threads should be blacklisted.

There is a better way. You can go here to 'thread tools' and select 'ignore this thread'.
I will do so.
Because I don't understand why a discussion about such sensitive topic will be held in a jazzguitar forum. The only outcome will be pure subjective, personal views without any new information.
You won't convince anyone to change his opinion with this discussion here in this thread.

[Dave70]

The 'blacklisted' thing was a somewhat joking reference to another thread.

[AllanAllen]

There is a better way. You can go here to 'thread tools' and select 'ignore this thread'.
I will do so.
Because I don't understand why a discussion about such sensitive topic will be held in a jazzguitar forum. The only outcome will be pure subjective, personal views without any new information.
You won't convince anyone to change his opinion with this discussion here in this thread.

It still shows up in the side bar “New posts”

[dasein]

As for COVID death total- Hospital practitioners we’re given incentives to classify nebulous deaths as COVID related - as confirmed through many of my Doctor and nurse friends.

Which hospitals? What were the incentives? Be specific. Where was this coming from: department heads, the hospital administration? Do not be vague -- if this if information being relayed by "many of your friends" they should be able to give you exact numbers, timelines, names of people, etc. Department heads and hospital administration are all public information, so there are no privacy concerns.

Many of those NY medical practitioners / service providers who refused the vaccine, have been hired back - with full back pay, but this has been kept very quiet on our Democrat ( influenced) media sites.

Again, which hospitals? Name them.

[Christian Miller]

The mods? Now you're inventing people who don't exist who persecute you. Damn, you really are American.

[QAman]

Which hospitals? What were the incentives? Be specific. Where was this coming from: department heads, the hospital administration? Do not be vague -- if this if information being relayed by "many of your friends" they should be able to give you exact numbers, timelines, names of people, etc. Department heads and hospital administration are all public information, so there are no privacy concerns.



Again, which hospitals? Name them.

Here is just one example of many, where the CARES act provided COVID incentives to many hospitals across the country. Some hospitals were taking advantage -and there are many stories about nefarious practices. You can chose to agree or not. I chose to agree based on conversations with close friends in the medical field ' whose names I need not provide.

Are Hospitals Over-Reporting COVID-19 Cases Because of Financial Incentives? – InsideSources

Sent from my SM-P610 using Tapatalk

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Again, which hospitals? Name them.

The truth is the gold standard for supporting any argument, and it is true that NY courts overturned firings over refusal to get Covid vaccinations back in the fall of 2022. Among the first hospitals to rehire were St Joseph’s and Upstate, but many have since done this. This ruling resulted from earlier action against sanitation workers, but it had widespread ramifications in every industry.

AFAIK, SCOTUS has not been asked to review this specific decision. But in December 2023, they did vacate all appeals decisions on the mandate that all federal employees had to be vaccinated. Since Biden had already revoked that mandate in May, it’s not clear to me specifically whom the action affected or how. But it did eliminate state to state variance in such cases by setting standards and guidelines for appealing such cases going forward. And it made the Federal Circuit the final arbiter for them.

[dasein]

Here is just one example of many, where the CARES act provided COVID incentives to many hospitals across the country. Some hospitals were taking advantage -and there are many stories about nefarious practices. You can chose to agree or not. I chose to agree based on conversations with close friends in the medical field ' whose names I need not provide.

Are Hospitals Over-Reporting COVID-19 Cases Because of Financial Incentives? – InsideSources

Sent from my SM-P610 using Tapatalk

No, they don't. Medicare (and only Medicare) patients get an extra 20% reimbursement (which in reality doesn't even amount to 20% when you add everything up), and which still doesn't cover the full cost of treating a Covid patient.

Hospital COVID payments tied to patient treatment, not deaths | AP News

I didn't ask for your friends' names. I asked the department heads and hospital admins who pushed them towards a specific policy. That's public knowledge, you can look that up on any institution's website.

But I'm glad I can "choose to believe it or not" since I believe the far, far more likely answer is that these friends don't actually exist, and that this is yet another example of the extremely common phenomenon whereby someone hears from a third party that "they have a doctor friend who says XYZ," which in subsequent retellings magically transforms into "I have a doctor friend who says XYZ" to lend it additional credibility. Of course, the original storyteller doesn't actually have that friend either, they also heard it from a third party, who in turn also from someone else, ad infinitum. An elaborate network of third-party hearsay with no actual first-party.

The truth is the gold standard for supporting any argument, and it is true that NY courts overturned firings over refusal to get Covid vaccinations back in the fall of 2022.

I stand corrected, and I appreciate the thoroughness and attention to detail that you've used in this thread. You're doing the Lord's work.

[frabarmus]

That Vespa (the one Sting is riding) is now at Hard Rock Cafe in Florence (Italy)
(if anyone is interested)