Why is that?

**RLetson** · 10-03-2023, 10:15 PM

Not to pile on, but George Barnes.

**supersoul** · 10-05-2023, 11:05 AM

In keeping with my tendency to reply to things from several pages earlier, I give you this:
“Music is liquid architecture and Architecture is frozen music" - Johann Goethe.

**pauln** · 10-05-2023, 03:33 PM

Classical music has survived a long time using Italian to describe techniques. Do the words "slip" and "slur" impose unintended subliminal connotations of error and speech impediment in the context of musical articulation, expression, and execution? Is it time to follow the Classical lead and use pretty Italian names like "scivolare" and "calunnia"? If so, might as well look at the whole list starting with the ugly and violent sounding hammer on pull off... "martello su pizzico". I feel calmer already.

**Christian Miller** · 10-05-2023, 04:53 PM

Va bene

**Christian Miller** · 10-05-2023, 04:55 PM

Although it might be helpful for learners for teachers to also translate the Italian terms correctly, and when there are other nuances to the word, using extra words…

I actually think this is incredibly helpful.

for example
Forte
Piano
Legato
Largo

must interesting to contrast what the literal translation is to how the word is often explained.

**emanresu** · 10-06-2023, 02:11 PM

Sometimes I wonder whether our obsession with music is really about music...

**Peter C** · 10-06-2023, 03:49 PM

“Those who can, do; those who can’t, teach talk about it (like non-stop).”

**emanresu** · 10-06-2023, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by Peter C

“Those who can, do; those who can’t, teach talk about it (like non-stop).”

I know that line well. But there is just that line. It's a short thought that you have to think a whole cloud of crap around it yourself.

...
Should be banned. Or turned into discussion. You know... something healthy. Mentally.

**Alter** · 10-06-2023, 05:13 PM

Mainstream jazz comping is basically just language. Phrases that you play with chords instead of single lines. They could be played by any chord instrument, or a drummer even. The melody is jazz licks, and the rhythm is jazz licks also.

You can blame bebop for taking all the horn parts and giving them to the comping instruments..

Before that era, things were simpler.

**RLetson** · 10-06-2023, 06:36 PM

Just a thought, but consider the possibility that teaching/talking about it is a kind of doing. And that the bandstand is not the only venue worth performing on.

**emanresu** · 10-06-2023, 07:22 PM

why to perform. isn't music good enough by itself to enjoy? why the f@#$ perform it all the time?

**Peter C** · 10-06-2023, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by RLetson

Just a thought, but consider the possibility that teaching/talking about it is a kind of doing. And that the bandstand is not the only venue worth performing on.

See my edit FWIW.

**A. Kingstone** · 10-06-2023, 07:42 PM

Rock guitarist - good hair
Jazz guitarist - poor hair

**jazzshrink** · 10-06-2023, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by emanresu

why to perform. isn't music good enough by itself to enjoy? why the f@#$ perform it all the time?

For the same reason that paintings and sculptures are displayed in galleries, plays are performed on a theater stage, literature is printed in books, etc. "A work of art is not complete until it is shared" - Meg Black.

**jazzshrink** · 10-06-2023, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by A. Kingstone

Rock guitarist - good hair
Jazz guitarist - poor hair

Or in many cases, no hair!

**pamosmusic** · 10-06-2023, 08:37 PM

I always find it amusing when people come to a jazz forum to express the opinion that the people should talk less and play more.

Considering it’s a medium made up largely of text. And that they are on it as well.

There is, of course, the showcase subforum.

**Bobby Timmons** · 10-06-2023, 09:23 PM

^ Yes that is funny. I'm on my laptop dicking around on forums when I'm lying down on my bed resting and too tired to play music. It doesn't subtract from my practicing time.

In fact, I leveraged my laziness by completing my bachelor's online entirely while lying in bed. Lol!

**Christian Miller** · 10-07-2023, 03:19 AM

Originally Posted by Peter C

“Those who can, do; those who can’t, teach talk about it (like non-stop).”

So edit aside, this old saw is a funny one.

Those who can do, those who can’t teach… okay so say I can’t do (fair) and I teach (after a fashion haha.)

So, Mozart was a teacher (we actually have some of his lessons!), Bach too …

OTOH all jazz musicians teach, pretty much. Ron Carter taught half of the bass players in NYC for example. My friend Ozzy studied with Pasquale Grasso. Are they crap?

So I dunno. Not so much offensive as betraying a lack of knowledge of what musicians do irl. We all have teaching gigs

Material conditions aside there are people in the world who value teaching and love it. Or Barry Harris who played with all the greats, might reasonably be rated one of the greatest jazz pianists of the postwar era and taught until the end of his life. Teaching was his life. I’d like to imagine his response to that cliche.

Tbf I think a lot of musicians DO kind of think this, and predictably end up being crap teachers. Or live vicariously through their students, which is a terrible thing.

**Christian Miller** · 10-07-2023, 03:41 AM

Originally Posted by pamosmusic

I always find it amusing when people come to a jazz forum to express the opinion that the people should talk less and play more.

Considering it’s a medium made up largely of text. And that they are on it as well.

There is, of course, the showcase subforum.

Yeah nature of the platform.

These people can go to Instagram. Loads of playing there.

From my own perspective, I used to post playing here more but there’s not much point really. I think it’s quite good for WIP things that I don’t want too many people to see anyway, and I quite enjoy watching that sort of thing.

Most of my playing is on Insta and that doesn’t really talk to JGO very well.

Otoh putting playing on YouTube goes nowhere. YT is all about the video essays and tutorial content.

**pamosmusic** · 10-07-2023, 07:29 AM

Yeah I find asking questions about things I don’t know to actually be a pretty decent way to direct the practice too. Ya dig?

Playing a whole lot can be amazing but it can also just be wandering. Going for a nice long walk doesn’t accomplish much if you don’t know where you’re going.

**CliffR** · 10-07-2023, 07:42 AM

I enjoy talking about and reading and learning about things that interest me, such as jazz guitar.

**Peter C** · 10-07-2023, 09:10 AM

I "corrected" Shaw's maxim because I believe that a good teacher is indeed a "doer". If you can really play and teach, and also like to chin-wag about it, more power to you (I guess?).

@pamosmusic: The problem as I see it is people who don't play much posting a lot of (often dogmatic) text, because it's not based on real personal experience. Certainly not your case, as I've seen you play. Anyway, I think we already had a similar exchange on another thread.

@Christian: As is obvious, I don't subscribe to Bernie's view. So, with that (and jazzers Mozart and Bach, and all the other teaching-related stuff) out of the way, and not being an Instagram user, could you post a link to any more of your fusion playing? I really enjoyed a brief clip you posted some time ago.

**Christian Miller** · 10-07-2023, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by Peter C

I "corrected" Shaw's maxim because I believe that a good teacher is indeed a "doer". If you can really play and teach, and also like to chin-wag about it, more power to you (I guess?).

@pamosmusic: The problem as I see it is people who don't play much posting a lot of (often dogmatic) text, because it's not based on real personal experience. Certainly not your case, as I've seen you play. Anyway, I think we already had a similar exchange on another thread.

@Christian: As is obvious, I don't subscribe to Bernie's view. So, with that (and jazzers Mozart and Bach, and all the other teaching-related stuff) out of the way, and not being an Instagram user, could you post a link to any more of your fusion playing? I really enjoyed a brief clip you posted some time ago.

Well there’s plenty of my playing like that on Insta, I haven’t really put it elsewhere

but … if there isn’t a way of watching Instagram videos outside of the platform I’d put them up. Maybe on another YouTube channel….

**Bobby Timmons** · 10-07-2023, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by Peter C

“Those who can, do; those who can’t, teach talk about it (like non-stop).”

Bahahaha. This is kind of true tho.

**ccroft** · 10-07-2023, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by Peter C

....being an Instagram user, could you post a link to any more of your fusion playing? I really enjoyed a brief clip you posted some time ago.

If you haven't you should check out the band-camp link in Christian's signature. (it only took me a year and a half to notice it, and as you probably know I've seen it thousands of times... :-)

You don't have to buy the album to hear it, but I like to support the guys that put good stuff out there so I contributed. There's some fusionistics going on in there. Dig the title track. It's a strong quartet. Christian looks sooo sophisticated on the cover!

The famous quote is fun and all, but it's not true. Seems like almost all the great jazz doers teach to varying degrees. Except for a few it kinda seems like you have to. And there's the doing good part: passing the torch and supporting the art.

I'm a music doer. I tried teaching decades ago but didn't like it. I worked part time as an artist assistant instead.