Why is that?

[kris]

I have vowed to spend more time playing — thrice rather than twice a day — and less time here.

I congratulate you.
I promised myself that I would only be active on the forum until the end of the year.
I am very curious whether this decision of mine will come true.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

[sgcim]

Yeah i slur allllllllllll the time and got the idea from John Scofield.

He’s obviously not a straight ahead dude all the time, but he cited the way he slurs as the reason his weird stuff still sounds like jazz when he’s playing in the context. In other words, the slurs were essential to the jazz.

In that instruction video he made, Scofield admitted that he had very poor plectrum technique, so he had to use hammer-ons and pull-ofs constantly.
Jim Hall was another guy who wrote tunes that were impossible to play without using hammer-ons and pull-offs.

[kris]

In that instruction video he made, Scofield admitted that he had very poor plectrum technique, so he had to use hammer-ons and pull-ofs constantly.
Jim Hall was another guy who wrote tunes that were impossible to play without using hammer-ons and pull-offs.

That's true.
I have been analyzing Scofield's playing for over 40 years.
I have his complete discography, several books and I have transcribed a lot of his solos including edu video "On Improvisation"/note for note/.
Interestingly, Scofield often says that he is from the Jim Hall "school".

[Christian Miller]

Sco’s a celebrated example of a jazz guitarist who slurs a lot but I for one found it surprising and interesting that Martino slurs a lot. I thought of PM very much as the picking guy. So I learned something here…

It makes me wonder if there’s anyone out there who’s a pure picking guy.

This is the kind of info one can get from the forum from people who have actually taken a lot of time in their lives to study jazz guitar in some depth. And then there’s people who are here to win an argument.

[kris]

Sco’s a celebrated example of a jazz guitarist who slurs a lot but I for one found it surprising and interesting that Martino slurs a lot. I thought of PM very much as the picking guy. So I learned something here…

It makes me wonder if there’s anyone out there who’s a pure picking guy.

This is the kind of info one can get from the forum from people who have actually taken a lot of time in their lives to study jazz guitar in some depth. And then there’s people who are here to win an argument.

haha
These are certainly guitarists who are just learning what it means to play jazz.
All The Best
Kris

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

[...] (The dancing/architecture line is usually attributed to Frank Zappa, though maybe it was Lincoln or Einstein or Churchill or Aristotle. Depends on whose photo goes on the meme.)

Until today I always thought it was Laurie Anderson who said that.

I just found out there is a whole wiki article on that saying.

Writing about music is like dancing about architecture - Wikipedia

[Christian Miller]

haha
These are certainly guitarists who are just learning what it means to play jazz.
All The Best
Kris

learning might be a stretch

[dot75]

Interestingly, Scofield often says that he is from the Jim Hall "school".

Didn't know that - interesting...

Jim Hall's practise techniques included limiting himself to one string / finger, then two etc

He also said he developed his legato style to blend his sound with these guys,

[oldane]

What matters is whether slurring is essential. Must one play slurs in order to be a jazz guitarist? Can one be a jazz guitarist without slurring?

My basic problem with this discussion about slurring being or not being an essential for jazz guitar playing is that I don't find it relevant. With all the directions and styles jazz has evolved to through a century I think very little - if anything - can be said to be essential.

What is essential after all? We are talking about jazz - a music form based on improvisation, freedom and a personal "voice". Does it matter at all to define "the essentials" or encircle the "non essentials"? Slurring is a technique available to use or not use according to taste and the musical context. To repeat the Duke Ellington quote: "If it sounds right, it is right" - with or without the essentials.

Yes, one CAN no doubt be a jazz guitarist without slurring. It's just that there seem to be very few jazz guitarists who don't slur. But does it matter?

[SandChannel]

I have vowed to spend more time playing — thrice rather than twice a day — and less time here.

This sounds like a solid plan and one in which everyone here wishes you the best.

[kris]

I think that nowadays jazz musicians try to use a modern language of expression and that is why they use various guitar techniques.Perhaps it is a search for an original sound.

[pamosmusic]

In that instruction video he made, Scofield admitted that he had very poor plectrum technique, so he had to use hammer-ons and pull-ofs constantly.
Jim Hall was another guy who wrote tunes that were impossible to play without using hammer-ons and pull-offs.

I heard this at a masterclass with him in 2010, though that doesn’t surprise me.

[pamosmusic]

Until today I always thought it was Laurie Anderson who said that.

I just found out there is a whole wiki article on that saying.

Writing about music is like dancing about architecture - Wikipedia

Ah interesting. I’d heard the Elvis one. But I’d also heard it attributed to a thousand different people.

[pamosmusic]

What is essential after all? We are talking about jazz - a music form based on improvisation, freedom and a personal "voice".

This is kind of a misconception or maybe an oversimplification. It’s based on those things but also on a rhythmic character that makes it different from all the other music that is also based on those things. The articulation is important.

Does it matter at all to define "the essentials" or encircle the "non essentials"? Slurring is a technique available to use or not use according to taste and the musical context. To repeat the Duke Ellington quote: "If it sounds right, it is right" - with or without the essentials.

I would agree with Duke Ellington, for obvious reasons. But that’s why I was asking our buddy back there what he heard when he listened to the music, rather than what he didn’t see in the table of contents of a random jazz for beginners book.

Yes, one CAN no doubt be a jazz guitarist without slurring. It's just that there seem to be very few jazz guitarists who don't slur.

At this point the number seems to be zero. So if you can, then why don’t there seem to be any?

But does it matter?

Well obviously not. Which again makes it a weird hill to die on based on someone’s casual survey of the Berklee Press jazz guitar catalog.

(I do apologize, but that earlier post about conceding was sarcasm.)

[oldane]

This is kind of a misconception or maybe an oversimplification. It’s based on those things but also on a rhythmic character that makes it different from all the other music that is also based on those things. The articulation is important.

I agree. But those three things I mentioned was not an exhaustive list of things that may or may not be important in jazz. It was more an underlining of the "legality" to play whatever one finds fitting in the context (and then of course let the listener be the judge).

I would agree with Duke Ellington, for obvious reasons. But that’s why I was asking our buddy back there what he heard when he listened to the music, rather than what he didn’t see in the table of contents of a random jazz for beginners book.

Yep.

At this point the number seems to be zero. So if you can, then why don’t there seem to be any?

Well, I won't completely rule out that someone out there can play jazz without slurring - though I have not yet heard anyone myself or heard any named. And again, "if it sounds right, it is right", so anything goes as long as it sounds right (which is very much a matter of personal taste) - with or without slurs.

[pamosmusic]

I agree. But those three things I mentioned was not an exhaustive list of things that may or may not be important in jazz. It was more an underlining of the "legality" to play whatever one finds fitting in the context (and then of course let the listener be the judge).


Yep.


Well, I won't completely rule out that someone out there can play jazz without slurring - though I have not yet heard anyone myself or heard any named. And again, "if it sounds right, it is right", so anything goes as long as it sounds right (which is very much a matter of personal taste) - with or without slurs.

Fair points all around.

[RyanM]

Jazz guitar cannot be played without hammer ons and pull offs. Picking every note makes it sound like a rock guitarist

[kris]

Jazz guitar cannot be played without hammer ons and pull offs. Picking every note makes it sound like a rock guitarist

Rock guitarists use various guitar techniques.

[Litterick]

This sounds like a solid plan and one in which everyone here wishes you the best.

I will still be here. I won't allow the bullies to drive me away from this forum.

[Litterick]

(I do apologize, but that earlier post about conceding was sarcasm.)

I could not care less. I don't believe a word you say. You seem to be fixated with me. Fortunately, this forum has an 'ignore' feature.

[Christian Miller]

Jazz guitar cannot be played without hammer ons and pull offs. Picking every note makes it sound like a rock guitarist

I don’t think this is true, but enjoy a bold counter proposal

EDIT the first sentence is possibly true.

[Christian Miller]

Ah interesting. I’d heard the Elvis one. But I’d also heard it attributed to a thousand different people.

[sgcim]

Jazz guitar cannot be played without hammer ons and pull offs. Picking every note makes it sound like a rock guitarist

?????????????????????????

[mr. beaumont]

Perhaps Ryan is calling attention to absurdity by presenting the opposite of reality?

I do always get a kick out of jazz players who say "I like to think of my guitar like a horn," and then they proceed to pick every note.

[DMgolf66]

Starting at 1:00 mark

This whole lesson