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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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08-10-2023 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
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Originally Posted by GordonM
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Anybody else want some advice? I'm getting into this :-)
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600-plus years ago, Geoffrey Chaucer wrote, "The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne," which is a version of the classical Latin "Ars longa, vita brevis," which is a translation of an even older Greek saying (maybe from Hippocrates). It's literally an ancient observation, and it suggests that there is no end-point for the work of an art or craft.
While goals will differ, it seems to me that what we do with art/craft has to matter in and for itself, and that the supporting activities (practicing, studying theory, getting gigs, negotiating with bandmates) ought to arrange themselves according to their relationship to the making-music part. (Though if making music is also part of making a living, then other priorities may apply. Athletes don't work out for the fun of it.)
I'm 78 and not anything like a professional musician, though I've been playing in public with others for 28 years now. I do not have a practice regimen, but I do work on tunes and (sometimes) the technical skills required to play them in the contexts where they get called. (I'm a sitting-in guest with some pretty competent jazz guys--maybe more of a mascot. It's a status that might not bear close examination.) I'll keep on showing up and trying to keep up as long as my hands hold up and my welcome isn't worn out. But I don't worry about how far I'll get--I just want to play along. Getting a tune right, even on the sofa at home, is satisfying in itself. Doing so for an audience is the cherry on top.
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Originally Posted by RLetson
Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Originally Posted by RLetson
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Originally Posted by Kirk Garrett
Oh, and you gotta swing.
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I'm another one who is fighing against that mass of stuff "needing" learning. I've assembled a fair library of books, DVDs, streamed course subscriptions, etc etc and I know that if I sat down and really applied myself then I may be in with a shout of getting through about 10% of it before my time is up. The weight of all that potential knowledge and the work required to realise it can be daunting - especially when perusing the posts here and on YT and elsewhere when it feels like everyone else is several miles down the road and the first thing you have to do is catch up...
My answer has been two fold. In terms of addressing my inability to play anything resembling jazz I've simply allowed myself to learn a couple of dozen tunes, and a few major, minor, and dominant licks. Plus a couple of ii-V-1s. When I now jam with buddy of mine on these tunes (in the gypsy jazz style) I simply enjoy sticking close to the melody, weaving in a few variations and additions to that melody when space allows, and every once in a while playing a chorus based on the licks I know. What's been fun is that it works! It's almost like playing jazz, and with each week that goes by I learn a few more licks, or variations (or find myself altering the licks on the fly - occasionally on purpose), and progress is made.
The second thing has to been to choose just one of the aforementioned resources and give it my full attention, whether it's a Truefire course, a transcription I want to do, a book I'm working through. Whatever it is I just try and stick with that one thing for a lesson, a chapter, a chorus, and afterwards try and think about what I've learned and how I can add it to my small palette of choices.
Tiny steps, with no pressure to walk at all, I guess is what I'm saying.
Derek
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Originally Posted by digger
I’d rather play with someone who can toss licks together well over someone who knows every scale to play over every chord but sounds bad.
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There's a reason we call it playing music. Even for the most dedicated, ambitious, dead-serious, technically-accomplished musician, if it ain't playful, it's missing something. And, as mentioned upthread, it's needs to swing. (Though to my ear and body, "swing" is playful.)
But yield who will to their separation,
My object in living is to unite
My avocation and my vocation
As my two eyes make one in sight.
Only where love and need are one,
And the work is play for mortal stakes,
Is the deed ever really done
For Heaven and the future's sakes.
--Robert Frost, "Two Tramps in Mud-Time"
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Originally Posted by Kirk Garrett
I think the idea is to lower the stakes—whatever you choose to do, and however you choose to do it.
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Originally Posted by emanresu
Practice room. Rehearsal room. Stage. Studio. These places all have very different requirements and it takes time and reptition to learn how to work effectively in all of them.
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Originally Posted by Kirk Garrett
And granted, there's a lot that goes into the voice leading thing.
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
In other words, if you focus on voice leading, it appears to force you to learn a bunch of other stuff along the way.
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Originally Posted by DawgBone
Living room. Studio during a warm up before the first take. How many times has it been said "Why can't I sound as good as I do in my living room?" ha ha.
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"Why can't I sound as good as I do in my living room?"
cause your couch is a fan..not a critic..
alas..we put ALOT of pressure on ourselves
who said we MUST learn X by Monday or else
like many here I have a library of material/books and all ..some of it I have ingested and the rest is left
to the voice in my head that "demands" I learn the rest in all keys
these days I compose my own stuff..Im in no hurry to decide when a piece is finished..I use alot of my well practiced lined to see if they fit
some do some dont..I stay with the ones that work
I spent years learning "music" .. I had a guitar god for a teacher..30+ yrs ago..Im still learning his lessons..
I still find new things to learn and use in my playing .. do I feel overwhelmed by all the stuff I dont know (and never will)
naa..I can play alot of tunes I wanted to learn. I understand harmony and theory and can apply it when necessary (that is a big step for many..)
my advice is ..relax !! enjoy what you have learned so far in music..you can only learn so much in a given time frame under "ideal" settings
why do some players seem to "know everything" .. its a secret..they don't
no matter how much we learn ..there will always be an "overwhelming" amount of knowledge waiting to be discovered
again ..relax and enjoy
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It’s simple. Learn songs. Repertoire is everything. It opens up the instrument, it deepens your knowledge of everything on a practical level-harmonic movement, voice-leading, ways of improvising, articulation, phrasing, form, Constance, dissonance, the fingerboard, right-hand technique, left hand technique, left and right hand coordination, scales-vs-arpeggios-vs chromaticism vs enclosures,etc. You name it.
Nobody every accused someone who knows a ton of tunes of being unable to play.
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Originally Posted by NSJ
Working on stuff if the context of a tune is great idea, but learning music by way of songs is no simpler than learning music writ large.
For example … articulation, voice-leading, ways of improvising … any one of those things is broad and complex enough to take a lifetime.
Don’t mean to be weird. That’s just always been a bit of a pet peeve for me. Just learn tunes. The tunes don’t sound good if you aren’t working on other stuff, and if you’re working on other stuff in the context of a tune, you still have to decide and sort out what to work on.
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
It's amazing how much the disparate elements come together when you have a practice partner.
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Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
As Jimmy Bruno says in his Lesson One video on YouTube, you’re going to have to practice basic knowledge before you “just play.”
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