Virtuoso players: not necessarily songwriters

[Christian Miller]

Jacob Collier, Virtuoso and songwriter... at least if you ask Herbie Hancock, or Stevie Wonder, or Quincy Jones, or Pat Metheny or Steve Vai. Although, a lot of mediocre musicians don't like him.

What’s your favourite JC song?

[Christian Miller]

I’ve thought of one - Chris Thile. I’m not always the biggest Punch Brothers fan actually, but I respect the depth. Obviously they are all mfs and Chris Thile is entirely ridiculous.

[Christian Miller]

I also quite like Dirty Loops. They have some catchy songs. The lyrics are lightweight but it’s the sort of thing my girls can play musical statues to without complaining which is not something I can say for Chris Potter.

[Litterick]

Authenticity, innit? The fans love to hear someone singing his own song, from the heart, not something manufactured in an office building by two nerds on the payroll of a publishing company.

[DawgBone]

There was also the realization that you don't get any publishing royalties for singing other people's songs. ;o)

That and you have to pay substantial fees for using other peoples music on a recording to be sold for profit. It would be easy to spend upwards of a thousand dollars on licensing for a thousand CD's containing a dozen cover songs or so, depending on the specific fee for each song. Say hello to Harry Fox for me. I can speak from experience Horace Silver's estate wants a tidy sum to record his stuff commercially. It financially makes more sense to compose and record your own stuff especially seeing as how most musicians are running on the margins to begin with and the overwhelming majority of CD's recorded and sold for profit/business will not sell more than a hundred copies.

[fep]

What’s your favourite JC song?

There are a bunch, hard to pick one. So many different genres. Anyways, here is one:

In the Real Early Morning

And this tune he wrote:

And there's this:

And this:

And this (the no production tune, recorded on voice memo of his iphone and released raw):

[Jonah]

By the way... I think virtuosity in jazz originally was a part of aesthetics, it was too much connected with showbiz, too competitive... it was a show.

[Christian Miller]

There are a bunch, hard to pick one. So many different genres. Anyways, here is one:

In the Real Early Morning

And this tune he wrote:

And there's this:

And this:

And this (the no production tune, recorded on voice memo of his iphone and released raw):

I'll have a listen to these. Along with Snarky Puppy, JC is just one of those that hasn't connected with me. I quite like some of the JC originals stuff I've heard.

I like JC's sense of groove. His first instrument (aside from voice) was actually drums. I have a friend who had him in her class while he was still a kid haha. He taught himself jazz piano in a year.

[Christian Miller]

Authenticity, innit? The fans love to hear someone singing his own song, from the heart, not something manufactured in an office building by two nerds on the payroll of a publishing company.

Well they did in the 60s - 90s. Now, I have no idea.

[fep]

I tried writing a song once, called One More Cup of Coffee. Then I found out Bob Dylan had already written it (true story). So I gave up songwriting.

Could this be It?

Virtuoso players, just don't do songwriting. It's not that they couldn't, they just don't. Same goes for more average musicians.

It seems Jeff maybe put a couple hours into songwriting and that was the end of it. How well did he play guitar after just a couple of hours?

There is the songwriting advice that you may have to write 100 songs or so before you get a good one. It's a craft, just like learning an instrument is a craft. And, you don't have to be as talented as Mozart to be a songwriter (or a composer).

[Christian Miller]

Could this be It?

Virtuoso players, just don't do songwriting. It's not that they couldn't, they just don't. Same goes for more average musicians.

I think that good songwriting is the synergy between lyrics and music. Sometimes very simple music is lifted by the addition of a particularly good lyric. I do think you have to be into words. Some songwriters divide it up with lyrics by one person and music by another. I know a guy who interviewed Burt Bacharach and said he was barely verbal. Not all musicians are good with words.

A lot of musicians just aren't very good at writing lyrics. It's a whole different ball game.

I've written a fair amount of instrumental music. I think instrumental music escapes critical judgment in a weird way, songs are more understandable to people.

It seems Jeff maybe put a couple hours into songwriting and that was the end of it. How well did he play guitar after just a couple of hours?

There is the songwriting advice that you may have to write 100 songs or so before you get a good one.

That's the saying. I've basically written one song in my life. The lyrics were rewritten by someone else, and while the rewritten version was better, some of the meaning was changed. I think it's true you need to write a lot of bad songs before you can write good ones. But a lot of that is the words. And actually I used to write a lot when younger, but writing prose or even poetry is different to lyrics.

It's a craft, just like learning an instrument is a craft. And, you don't have to be as talented as Mozart to be a songwriter (or a composer).

Well, as a composer Mozart had more practice than most as well! The music he was writing as a child is not often performed. Most of Schuberts best work was in the last year of his short life (and he was the classical songwriter par excellence, of course he was setting other texts.)

As far as I know Mozart did write the lyrics to one song...

You know on reflection that scene in Spinal Tap seems cleverer now...

[Doctor Jeff]

Could this be It?

Virtuoso players, just don't do songwriting. It's not that they couldn't, they just don't. Same goes for more average musicians.

It seems Jeff maybe put a couple hours into songwriting and that was the end of it. How well did he play guitar after just a couple of hours?

There is the songwriting advice that you may have to write 100 songs or so before you get a good one. It's a craft, just like learning an instrument is a craft. And, you don't have to be as talented as Mozart to be a songwriter (or a composer).

I agree it's a craft, and I'm sure one (even I!) could learn it. But you have to have a special impulse to want to pursue it, since it's not easy for most of us. Comes easier for some than others, I would guess.

I actually do write songs--they're typically parodies of other songs. Lyrics only of course. I think I would be a pretty good lyricist if I put my mind to it, but writing melodies is hard work, IMO.