-
" The pressure from getting out there and playing is the best method for honing skills."
Victor Samurez
"It is often the case that a talented person has more time, because everything is easy for him.... . . . A talented person achieves what they want to achieve in a shorter time." Kris
"And some people cannot develop their ears no matter how hard they try......" StringswingerFive Star quotes!
Marinero
-
02-16-2022 08:36 AM
-
Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
-
Talent is natural ability. Because it comes naturally those who have it tend to do more of it. Thus they advance.
If those who don't have it force themselves they might get somewhere. Usually they never get anywhere more than mediocre. Personally I wouldn't make myself do something that was unnatural to me. I'd find something I could do and be happy.
-
Jazz talent - improvisational and compositional talent?
What is talent in classical music?
Last edited by kris; 02-18-2022 at 06:19 AM.
-
Interpretation.
-
Originally Posted by kris
This video should be required viewing for all serious Classical or Jazz students. Rubenstein was a poet of the piano and his voice was personal and profound. He understood talent intuitively and intellectually and its profound connection to music. He is absolutely correct when he says "you must be born with talent . . . and . . . "you can't learn talent." His advice to "play what one feels" is critical to achieving personal artistry since there is an emotional, spiritual, and intellectual connection to the music. Even his personal epiphany about "soul" speaks to a deep, innate, primordial connection to personal human communication through the Arts. These topics, today, seem to be missing among musicians and music programs where the focus is on pedagogy that might produce a mechanic but . . . never an artist. And, there are some prospective musicians that will never understand these critical elements much as teaching a Bedouin the love of the sea after a life spent in the desert. These discussions should be foremost in every serious musician's life. Thanks for the excellent video, Kris!
Marinero
-
Originally Posted by Marinero
-
Originally Posted by Litterick
It requires everything that Mr Rubinstein talks about. But this is talk. It's a visceral thing that is felt by the performer and the listener, if he's open to it.
Conservatories have been turning out robotic players for centuries. It's only the ones who have the deeper connection that rise.
If anything, it's more apparent in the classical realm since there are so many thousands of grads every year who can all get through the repertoire just fine.
A few have it. Many do not. It is talent.
-
Originally Posted by ccroft
Your first line: "I think it's the ability to make real at the moment something that was written by someone else," is the essence of Classical music where improvisation is not the soup du jour. A Classical composer has the very difficult task of writing beauty and emotion with little black dots and lines but the music can never come to life without a sensitive musician's talents that transform these hieroglyphics into human communication of the highest order. And, for me, few have done this better than Rubenstein and if you want to be serious about music . . . artists of this caliber are your best teachers.
Secondly, when you say "Conservatories have been turning out robotic players for centuries. . . ", this is not supported by historical evidence. What has happened post-WWII is that music programs moved, largely, out of the conservatories and into universities and colleges so they could reap the added profits to their bottom lines with the greatest college enrollment ever during the Baby Boomer generation where every fool with a loan or a checkbook went to college and helped create the conceptual modern universities we know today. So, music conservatories, in the past, were reserved for only the best students who could pass a written and juried formal audition before acceptance. This proved to create a small cadre of elite musicians that generally filled orchestras across the country and around the world. It was only during the Boomer generation that some relaxed their acceptance standards to "stay in the game." However, the European conservatories, in my opinion, have held steadfast to their standards and are still producing great musicians. Further, before the late 19th /20th Century, musicians studied privately with other musicians as was the case with most famous Classical composers.
Finally, Jazzers' also play music "written by someone else" so that analogy to Classical music performance is a red herring and the only difference between a great Jazzer or Classical musician is speaking the language of the genre. All great musicians have one thing in common: talent. Some have it . . . some don't."
Marinero
.
-
Originally Posted by ccroft
Everything he played was well thought out, strictly within his chosen framework, and perfectly executed. All it lacked was soul, relevance, and personality. He had bags of talent - he just lacked the taste and judgment to do the job for which he was hired.
-
Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
I feel blessed to have been born with some innate musical talent, but alas, that talent is somewhat limited, so I have to compensate for my chops shortcomings by playing tastefully. So far, so good. I still get paid to play my guitar on a regular basis. The music is free. The money is for the driving.
-
Originally Posted by Stringswinger
-
Originally Posted by ronjazz
-
Originally Posted by ronjazz
Union officials showed up at gigs dressed like Al Capone a week or two before elections, to count the number of us on the stand. It was apparently common for leaders to underreport band size to reduce work dues, which obviously also cut one or more of us out of the loop as far as the union was concerned. The office “withheld” our work dues and pension contributions but apparently never paid them into the AFM funds. So the elected leaders of the local would “catch” everybody but let the leaders off with a “warning” and a reminder that elections were coming up. I learned years later that most of my pension contributions were AWOL, leading me to believe that the leaders for whom I worked (all of whom are now dead) split that money with the union guys (also all now dead).
When I once complained that the piano in the main ballroom of the center city Philly Holiday Inn was horribly out of tune and made my gig there an embarrassment, I was told that they were too busy to check every piano in Philadelphia. I pointed out that it was a top rated room in the union book, which meant that they claimed to check it regularly. So I asked the president-for-life (who actually answered the phone) what they did for my work dues. Here’s what followed:
“We protect you.”
”From what?”
”Unscrupulous employers.”
[Insert sound of phone being slammed onto receiver here]
-
" Our local(union) was a freak show from the day I “auditioned” for membership in 1969 until the day I quit in frustration 30 years later. " Nevershouldhavesoldit
Hi, N,
I joined Chicago 10-208 in '72. The audition was a complete joke: they asked me to read a few simple lines and then said, "Play something." Afterward, I paid my dues. However, they had the best venues in the city and suburbs and if you wanted to play those gigs you had to be union. They also had a "blacklist" for clubs that "stiffed" musicians but that was also a joke since nothing was ever done to rectify the problem. I don't know if things have changed but those gigs are few and far between today.
Marinero
-
Originally Posted by Marinero
Our local’s been taken over by some serious and apparently honest people who are players and take care of the members. Sadly, the only gigs that take union membership seriously now are at the level of the Philadelphia Orchestra. A good, solid, creative union could be a big help to young musicians starting out and to middle aged players trying to compete against disc jockeys and prevail over difficult club owners. It’s a real shame that the union drove so many of us away by wasting our dues and treating us like trash.
-
Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
Thanks
-
Originally Posted by jameslovestal
MA (like most such groups) was run from a central office with a few employees who managed the business end - payroll, taxes, logistics, coordination etc. We could be called by the office to play for any of the leaders, but the “big 5” rarely rotated players. I worked for a great guy named Lou King, and the core band was me, bass, drums, trumpet, tenor / clarinet, and Lou on accordion. He was a wonderful musician and a great leader who respected us all and treated us like friends and equals. I truly miss him and the rest of the guys a lot! Sadly, I think that only the bass player and I are still alive, and he retired to Florida years ago.
After MA, I played for the Harriet Fay organization. She was a great keyboard player and leader who also treated us all well. I think she had 5 or 6 other leaders in her office. Remember that the live music business was already drying up, and the days of 3 or 4 dates a week for a dozen bands in each of many offices were gone (at least here) 30+ years ago. Like MA, she had a “stable” of the top players in our region and every gig was an adventure. Sadly, she also passed away.
Pay scale was determined by the owner(s) of the offices and we were all employees of the offices for which we played. MA generally paid scale plus travel and cartage, but they also honored doubling and other add-ons in accord with union rules. Thanks to Lou, I doubled on keys and got paid for it even if it was only a tune or two - if the bride wanted it, I did it. Remember when the themes from Exodus and from Love Story were popular? I played one or both on piano at every gig for years and got paid as a double. Lou always made sure his band did as well as we legitimately could - most leaders were not so good about that. And Harriet routinely paid me double scale plus add-ons.
Those were great times and I loved almost every minute of every day. The office booked duos and trios to play background jazz for fashion shows at fancy shops - I had many 4 to 8 (!) hour dates like that. On my own, I played jazz at least a few nights a week at restaurants and clubs. And I did everything from blues to country when called. It’s a miracle that I got through graduate school and then held a steady day gig too!
Gibson Thin line Guitar Models
Yesterday, 11:07 PM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos