Amp volume

[Stevebol]

I'm looking for a new amp so this was interesting;

[marcwhy]

This is always fascinating/interesting/confusing for me, along with the "tube vs solid state" watts/volume stuff! [My 20W tube amps always seem "louder" than my 200W solid state amp through the same cab!]

When I've tried 40W tube amps, they always seem "boomy" or "more than I need," even though lots of jazz cats say, "You need at least 50W for clean headroom!"

Thanks for posting!

[citizenk74]

Speaking as someone who has had a slew of heavy iron - Vox Super Beatle, Sunn Concert Lead, Fender Bassman 100, Ampeg V-2, Fender Showman, Fender Dual Showman Reverb, Fender red-knob Evil Twin, Plexis in 50 and 100 watt varieties, Peavy 4-10" Classic 50 (66lbs), original Fender Vibroverb (2-10"), Music Man 112RD w/JBL, and a host of less powerful amps, including my Traynor YCV40WR w/extension cabinet, which I consider my half-Twin; I can definitely say that I probably have done any of my gigs with a Princeton Reverb and a small pedalboard, using the amp, whenever possible, as a personal/stage monitor.

So yeah, 15w should be enough. In fact, I gigged a lot with just the PR and a buzzbox. Playing Jazz with large/and/or/loud groups, my 22w DRRI was plenty, except for one outdoor festival gig, where I had to alter my tone to the slightly trebly side to minimize speaker flub.

The trend for me in recent years has been to smaller and less powerful tone generators.

There have been exceptions.

[christianm77]

I wish someone here would try an H&K Spirit of Vintage, so I can talk to them about it .That’s a micro amp with 20w I can believe in - responds very similar to my Princeton.

[Alter]

It seems to be 25 watts with an 8 ohm speaker, hardly suitable for gigging..

[guavajelly]

I have two fender tube amps:
15 watts blues jr., 1 x 12" ceramic speaker
40 watts Vibrolux, 2 x 10" alnico speakers

Back in the days when we still had the studio so I could crank, I curiously made the loudness test and they were right on par with loudness and headroom. I had a less efficient alnico speaker in the blues jr. for some time and that tamed it a lot – it wasn't loud enough to compete with the organ trio. I put a ceramic speaker in it – problem solved.
Sure the bigger vibrolux amp has more air and fullness, but honestly I turn the bass control towards zero otherwise it's too boomy. But sure it has more punch and oumpf – which I like.
Personally I like a hint of tube saturation and compression so for the average jazz club to me 15 watts of valve amp is enough to fill the stage and the room.
I wouldn't want to play louder on stage anyway. If it needs to be louder in the room, the PA should do the lifting.

[christianm77]

It seems to be 25 watts with an 8 ohm speaker, hardly suitable for gigging..

It’s f***ing loud

[citizenk74]

It’s f***ing loud

Which brings to mind the wild card in this discussion, to wit: how loud are the other members of the group playing? If everyone in the ensemble is being sensible and playing only as loud as necessary for a nice blend - no worries. Heavy-handed drummer? Keyboardist with banks of synths, plus piano? The variations are endless.

The solution is a soundperson and sufficient gear (FoH speakers and numerous onstage monitors) to fill a separate van; and a commensurate increase in outlay and corresponding decrease in take home.

From a purely business aspect, it makes sense to simply keep it down a bit. Fifteen watt amps are a step in the right direction.

Brushes would help, as well.

My contention has always been that everything audio-wise on a jazz stage should be scaled to the sound of the upright bass. For me, I gotta hear that dwoing and swoosh and bap of the bass and drums.

[silvertonebetty]

Zero basically for the last year. I can’t even have it at one without him bitching. Same with my radio and tv . Even after setting volume levels by the landlord he still complains. Even complaining about my ac unit that I need for medical reasons. So at the end of the month I am moving to a new location where the tenants don’t mind my guitar nor radio. It’s weird getting my old apartment back but it will be nice .


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[Stevebol]

I wish someone here would try an H&K Spirit of Vintage, so I can talk to them about it .That’s a micro amp with 20w I can believe in - responds very similar to my Princeton.

20 watts is awfully low for solid state. Wouldn't at least 50-60 be about right for jazz? To my ears, the most versatile SS amp out there is the Roland Blues Cube. They're fairly light too. I'm not gigging so I'm going total tube snob with the Peavey Classic 20. It's not perfect. The reverb isn't great and it's a little under-powered for stage but people say it's very versatile. You can dial in a Fender of Marshall sound easily.
Probably not what jazzers are looking for.

[Stevebol]

I tried a 20 watt Blackstar tube amp the other day. I cranked the clean channel to the edge of breakup. Nice. It is loud enough...
This is frustrating because there are so many 20 watt amps out there and they're so close. Just 15-20% more perceived volume and it would be problem solved.

[Stevebol]

There's no way I'm spending this much but I wonder if this is the perfect amp;

Rivera Clubster Royale Recording Top 25-watt Tube Head | Sweetwater

[pingu]

My take on this is that if you want to play lines like
(or indeed with) a horn you need the same kind of volume as a horn ....

Note
This is volume with the amount of overdrive/distortion
you want in your sound (which could be none)

Me , I'm fine with a (15watt tube) 12" speaker Blues Junior
which is that kinda loud
(this is with a somewhat compressed/overdriven sound
which I kinda like ....)

But that's just me
If you wanted a cleaner sound you might well want
a 2x10" vibrolux or similar
or maybe even a 2x 12" like a Twin Reverb

[Stevebol]

I'm going with this;

Peavey Classic 20 Mini 20-watt Tube Head | Sweetwater

[Gitfiddler]

I'm going with this;

Peavey Classic 20 Mini 20-watt Tube Head | Sweetwater

Excellent choice. Let us know how you like it after you get a chance to put it through its paces.

[christianm77]

20 watts is awfully low for solid state. Wouldn't at least 50-60 be about right for jazz? To my ears, the most versatile SS amp out there is the Roland Blues Cube. They're fairly light too. I'm not gigging so I'm going total tube snob with the Peavey Classic 20. It's not perfect. The reverb isn't great and it's a little under-powered for stage but people say it's very versatile. You can dial in a Fender of Marshall sound easily.
Probably not what jazzers are looking for.

Holy shit. What do people want me to say lol? I'm not a n00b. I know how loud an amp needs to be to play a jazz gig and this little thing has more than enough in the tank for that. Clean headroom for days. Comparable to my Princeton (which is louder than standard due to a more sensitive speaker). It weighs about a kilo.

(Solid state amps get a bad rep because people don't seem to realise the speaker specs are really quite important; solid state amps have historically been coupled with cheap speakers.)

[christianm77]

Without trying it with drums I couldn't say for sure, but I actually think I'd be more confident about the headroom in the H&K than the Peavey Classic 20 TBH. Those things break up a bit too much for jazz, probably comparable to a modern PRRI with the base speaker. Maybe with the right speaker they'd be more of a contender.

Nice amp though. Very cool features. For home and recording use, I think that would be great.

[pingu]

I wish someone here would try an H&K Spirit of Vintage, so I can talk to them about it .That’s a micro amp with 20w I can believe in - responds very similar to my Princeton.

Like you I've got a Bam 200 and a Toob

I'm also interested in one of these little H&K ....
to achieve a bit touch sensitivity into dirt too
(they're blurb says they can do this anyway)

I don't like the idea of the separate power supply tho
how big / heavy is the power unit ?

thanks man

[rpjazzguitar]

I just came back from my last octet session of the year. The rest are cancelled because of the virus lockdown here in Northern California.

Four horns pgbd. Spread out in a large patio. I was at one end, a good 40 feet from the bassist and even more from the last horn player on the other side. Band is set up in a rectangle, horns on one long side, bass, drums keys on the other. Guitar at one end.

I brought the DV Mark Little Jazz, which is 50 watts into 8 ohms per the manufacturer. 8 inch speaker. I put it about 10 feet from myself and I face the side of the amp. It's pointed at the rhythm section, but it's surprisingly non-directional, presumably because it's ported in the back. I play with the bass control almost all the way down.

It was plenty loud enough. And, it sounded perfect for what I'm trying to do.

That said, I play in another situation in which a quintet is playing facing each other (like around a circle, more or less). Also outdoors. In that situation I set up the LJ and a Roland JC55. Neither super loud, but I like the dispersion better for some reason in that situation.

[Stevebol]

I'm not gigging so the Peavey should be fine for me.

[citizenk74]

There's no way I'm spending this much but I wonder if this is the perfect amp;

Rivera Clubster Royale Recording Top 25-watt Tube Head | Sweetwater

Yes. Seems to tick all of my boxes. It is a lot of dough, but you get what you pay for, which in this case seems to be a well designed practical working tool for stage and studio: realistic power, small footprint, portable, versatile, and attractive; with a plethora of features for recording, and enough power and projection for stage use (I am, of course, including the matching speaker enclosure as part of the unit, which brings the package in at (opens new tab, checks prices) Around two large, which ain't bad for full-pro gear. IMHO.
Of course, I won't be doing any more gigging and if I were, I've got enough now to cover any contingency nicely, so this is a purely academic (read: fantasy) exercise.

A guy can dream, right?

[citizenk74]

I'm going with this;

Peavey Classic 20 Mini 20-watt Tube Head | Sweetwater

This should be fine. I had both a C30 and C50, the latter of which was my go-to for many years. If the clean headroom of the 20 is comparable to that of the 50, you'll have knob to spare if the speaker is sufficiently efficient, pace CM77.

[Stevebol]

This should be fine. I had both a C30 and C50, the latter of which was my go-to for many years. If the clean headroom of the 20 is comparable to that of the 50, you'll have knob to spare if the speaker is sufficiently efficient, pace CM77.

I'm new to speaker tech. I like the sound of the Jensen P10R but the sensitivity is fairly low. In any event I'm going to build a 2 X 10 cab.

[coyote-1]

Context is everything. For jazz, I like clean tone. So headroom is important.

I also think on it this way. Your jazz guitar is a sound source. How large is it? Is that luscious spruce top 8”? Or is it 15”+??

i like a 12” speaker or larger for clean jazz guitar, and I like headroom. That combination is what made the Polytone amps so great for this. It’s why a 100w, 15” bass combo is working great for me now.

If you don’t have headroom in the amp, you’ll get distortion. If that sound is working for you and your bandmates, that’s awesome.

All JMO.

[silvertonebetty]

Master at 1 and volume at 6 frig it


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