Eastman: Really a front for the RAMJAC Corp.?

**rabbit** · 12-01-2020, 05:39 PM

I believe Eastman now owns controlling interests in Dana Bourgeois Guitars, S.E. Shires (brasswinds) and Backun (woodwinds.)

The guys who started these outfits are not youngsters so it is understandable.

Still, the corporatization of every little thing...

Just wanted to share this; do with it as you please.

**2bornot2bop** · 12-01-2020, 07:27 PM

That sucks because Bourgeois is an American icon. It’s like the Japanese buying up Hollywood all over again.

**Flat** · 12-01-2020, 07:56 PM

from Dana's website:

Bourgeois / Eastman Collaboration Update - Bourgeois Guitars

**rob taft** · 12-01-2020, 08:19 PM

First off Eastman has owned S.E. Shires since 2014. Eastman was started as a small company that has grown into a large company that has frankly saved some of these companies and luthiers from insolvency or at the minimum enhanced their brand. The latest from Dana Bourgeois is linked below. Dana Bourgeois folded in 1999. Too bad Eastman was around then. Not every corporation is an evil entity. RAMJAC... really..take off your tinfoil hat.

Live from Bourgeois Guitars: October 2020 - Bourgeois Guitars

**rabbit** · 12-01-2020, 11:40 PM

Name-calling as a first response.

Very good, Taft.

**Spook410** · 12-02-2020, 12:39 AM

Small business is a nice notion but often not a very efficient application of resources in a competitive world. I don't know how it is being under the Eastman umbrella for these companies but I like having more consumer choices. And they obviously chose to go with Eastman so I have to believe the terms were something they favored. Not sure why this is being raised as if it were some sort of concern.

**ronjazz** · 12-02-2020, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by rabbit

Name-calling as a first response.

Very good, Taft.

No name-calling at all. Man up.

**rabbit** · 12-03-2020, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by ronjazz

No name-calling at all. Man up.

Thank you for this valuable contribution.

Two ad hominem attacks, the second defending the first.

Boy, I'm going to have to think fast to stay ahead of you guys.

**guido5** · 12-03-2020, 08:33 AM

The thread is a baseless attack to begin with.

You get what you ask for.

**rabbit** · 12-04-2020, 06:00 AM

Originally Posted by guido5

The thread is a baseless attack to begin with.

You get what you ask for.

Your assertion comes without support of any rational argument. This is not a surprise.

I would describe my original post as a saddened observation of three fine,
independent North American instrument makers passing into corporate ownership.

Not simply 'corporate' but an outfit that is a minion for the Communist Chinese Party.

Be reminded that all communism is, always and ever, openly and aggressively committed
to ultimate monopolization.

You fellas are fine with this.

**Woody Sound** · 12-04-2020, 07:11 AM

re RAMJAC, maybe you should have put a smiley emoticon after that acronym to avoid serious presumptions.

**guido5** · 12-04-2020, 07:22 AM

There are newly employed luthiers who can't keep up with the new orders in Lewiston ME who thank Eastman for their jobs. I'll bet a lot of ex-Gibson employees who would have jumped for joy had the opportunity been extended before they lost their jobs.

**ronjazz** · 12-04-2020, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by rabbit

Thank you for this valuable contribution.

Two ad hominem attacks, the second defending the first.

Boy, I'm going to have to think fast to stay ahead of you guys.

You're far behind us already, thanks for playing, and losing.

**ronjazz** · 12-04-2020, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by rabbit

Your assertion comes without support of any rational argument. This is not a surprise.

I would describe my original post as a saddened observation of three fine,
independent North American instrument makers passing into corporate ownership.

Not simply 'corporate' but an outfit that is a minion for the Communist Chinese Party.

Be reminded that all communism is, always and ever, openly and aggressively committed
to ultimate monopolization.

You fellas are fine with this.

You're delusional. And dead wrong, as always. keep crying.

**lawson-stone** · 12-04-2020, 11:19 AM

I'm so grateful for the "Ignore Thread" feature.

**cmajor9** · 12-04-2020, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

I'm so grateful for the "Ignore Thread" feature.

If you want to ignore a thread, why post in it?

**Sam Sherry** · 12-04-2020, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop

That sucks because Bourgeois is an American icon. It’s like the Japanese buying up Hollywood all over again.

I first met Dana when he worked out of his basement; many friends and pals have worked for him. Dana's personal instruments are tippity-top guitars. He deserves big props for personally helping CF Martin to rediscover its vintage mojo in the 1980s. I only speak well of Dana.

Even so, it's hard to let "American icon" pass without note. Donald Trump, Kamala Harris and Jimi Hendrix are American icons -- they're on t-shirts all over the world. Dana builds nice guitars but you wouldn't recognize him in line at the ice cream stand.

Originally Posted by guido5

There are newly employed luthiers who can't keep up with the new orders in Lewiston ME who thank Eastman for their jobs. I'll bet a lot of ex-Gibson employees who would have jumped for joy had the opportunity been extended before they lost their jobs.

Can't disagree with any of that.

I've known people who worked on the line at CF Martin, Ovation, Bourgeois and Upton Bass, consulting luthiers for Martin and Gibson, and a bunch of solo luthiers. At the time I followed this stuff almost no-one working line jobs in guitar factories was able to scratch-build a guitar. For example, in the early 80s AFAIK the only two people employed by CF Martin who could scratch-build a guitar alone were Dick Boak and the pattern-maker (Donald Deck??). Maybe I'm wrong and folks will correct me. Maybe things have changed. But based on that I conclude that almost all guitar-factory jobs were . . . factory jobs.

In contrast, a bunch of people who did line work for Dana Bourgeois scratch-build mighty fine guitars -- a short list includes names like Chuck Thornton, Joel Eckhaus, Steve Ryder, John Slobod and Laurent Brondel. (And that doesn't count his three 'basement-era' apprentices, TJ Thompson, Tom Williamson and Ted Scheips.) Maybe that's why Bourgeois-brand factory guitars were so sweet. But I don't assume that moving from finish-sanding necks hot off the CNC machine all week for Gibson Nashville to working in Dana's shop would always be a smooth transition.

**rabbit** · 12-05-2020, 03:39 AM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

I'm so grateful for the "Ignore Thread" feature.

Thank you for your support, Professor.

**rabbit** · 12-05-2020, 03:51 AM

Originally Posted by Woody Sound

re RAMJAC, maybe you should have put a smiley emoticon after that acronym to avoid serious presumptions.

The suggestion that I should anticipate the tender emotions of the extremists here, and cater to them,
would be deeply offensive if I could imagine you really meant this. I can't imagine this.

My original post was innocuous enough.

I'm attacked here because of who I am considered to be, not really for what I first said.

Unless you correct me, my take on this is: "Woody just missed the point here,"
not "Woody is okay with this bullxxxt."

**rabbit** · 12-05-2020, 04:02 AM

Originally Posted by rob taft

Not every corporation is an evil entity. RAMJAC... really..take off your tinfoil hat.

I just received this new transmission from my hat.

While you are checking it out (first link) bear in mind that Apple has $191.83 Billion in cash reserves laying around (second link.)
Ya' know, a Corporation can't be too careful to protect it's profits:

Nike, Coca-Cola, Apple lobbied to weaken Uighur labor bill: report - Business Insider

Apple Cash Reserve by Quarter: FY Q1 1995 to Q4 2020 - Dazeinfo