Joint Supplements

[Jazzstdnt]

If any pill or supplement regrew cartilage it would cost $10,000 per bottle and the inventor would be the next Jeff Bezos.

[Matt Cushman]

I would try a comfrey leaf poultice. Otherwise known as knit bone, comfrey leaf is often used for joint and bone health. Do a internet search on this miracle plant. They call it knit bone for a good reason. This stuff truly does work. I use it often and I tell you it is very effective.

[Bob P.]

i use a topical product called Sombra, the warm therapy version. It was actually recomended by my Primary Care doctor. Keep in mind that he is of Indian(like from India) descent, and has a bit more of an open mind about mixing Western and Eastern medicine.

It does give me some rather quick, albeit temporary results. i'm 68 and it really does help. A Google search should provide several sources.

[starjasmine]

Thanks for the comments. Regarding exercise, I do a lot of light exercise. I'm 61 and retired so I can put the time in.

Dog walks, average 3 times a day, about 25 miles per week

Golf, I play twice a week and walk the courses, about 7-8 hours on my feet and about 11 miles per week.

Light weight lifting twice a week

Band workout twice a week

20 minute sessions on rowing machine 4 times a week.

Certainly that's enough, it takes time away from playing music . I could increase the intensity but my body is old for it's age due to chemo and a bone marrow transplant 8 years ago. I'm on immune suppresion including prednisone with a side effect of muscle atrophy, I try to fight that off with exercise. It's a bit of a losing battle in that I think I continue to lose muscle mass. 5'11", 150 lbs. Per the bmi that's where I'm suppose to be, but I could stand to lose some body fat and gain muscle or so says the mirror.

By the time you get to your 60s and beyond most of us have a bit of medical history.

Wow, Frank, you rock! I mean that only in the best way, of course, this being a jazz forum and all :-)

FWIW the glucosamine supplement I use is from Trader Joe's. It does have chondroitin in it, too; the online forums I read some years back indicated that chondroitin isn't effective but isn't bad for you. Now, before all you chondroitin fans flame me to a crisp, please let me say that your mileage may vary, and I haven't researched this in years, because what I'm using works for me. And if chondroitin works for you, good deal!

[dwparker]

Try taking fish oil tablets on daily basis for a while. I lift weights, and I have found my joints are less sore when I do this. It's a fairly common remedy among older lifters and may help you.

[Matt Cushman]

I had a painful bone spur on my finger a few years ago. One possible contributer to the formation of bone spurs is an excess intake of oxalates in our diet. High levels of oxalic acid interfere with calcium absorption leading to calcium deposits in the form of bone spurs. Oxalates are found in many plants and are part of a plants way of defending itself from being eaten. The topic of oxalates is complicated and not well studied. If you are concerned with oxalates it is best not to stop consuming them cold turkey as this can cause an oxalate "dump" leading to a wide variety of symptoms. I found out the hard way so be careful if you think you may have oxalate overload. Check the work of Dr. Sally K Norton for more oxalate information.

[GNAPPI]

It seems as if the scientific (pharma) community has more interest in pursuing research where big dollars are to be made, and supplements are not it... IMO that is.

Aids? Yup, Cholesterol, high blood pressure? absolutely but till they find a way to patent and gouge prices I don't expect any more than anecdotal evidence of relief from OTC remedies. Unfortunately the "studies" from supplement companies that are quoted from sources other than those considered "reputable" are ALWAYS positive when discussing their product.

If there are ANY studies or reports I'll trust, it's the Mayo clinic. See:

Drugs and Supplements - Drugs and Supplements - Mayo Clinic

At any rate, I have arthritis in my hands, as well as an issue (not formally diagnosed) in my right knee. The knee problem crops up nightly when I ride my bike, and I could just about tell I'm at the 10 mile mark without my cycle computer because my right knee starts to hurt.

Taking glucosamine / MSM limits my knee pain to near zero, my left hand not as much but it's helpful.

[GNAPPI]

I had a painful bone spur on my finger a few years ago. One possible contributer to the formation of bone spurs is an excess intake of oxalates in our diet. High levels of oxalic acid interfere with calcium absorption leading to calcium deposits in the form of bone spurs. Oxalates are found in many plants and are part of a plants way of defending itself from being eaten. The topic of oxalates is complicated and not well studied. If you are concerned with oxalates it is best not to stop consuming them cold turkey as this can cause an oxalate "dump" leading to a wide variety of symptoms. I found out the hard way so be careful if you think you may have oxalate overload. Check the work of Dr. Sally K Norton for more oxalate information.

In my case, specifically Starfruit (Carambola) which I grow on my property is a source of oxalic acid. Consumption can be limited by buying and eating only fully ripened fruit, cutting off and discarding the green tips of the "wingtips" of the fruit.

Consumption of oxalic acid / Oxalates are also not good for people with renal / kidney issues.

[vinlander]

I am having osteoarthritis, it is in the family.
Since years every morning at breakfast I take one pill of 1200mg glucosamine + Chondroitin + MSM and placebo effect or not, it seems to ease my lower back and hip pain.
Fortunately no finger, hand or arm issue so far...
Actually even our 10 years old Lab mix dog is on glucosamine once a day, more in a preventive intent and so far so good...in that case hardly placebo can be at work

[sgosnell]

All the reliable studies seem to indicate that MSM does have some effect, but glucosamine and chondroitin have none. If you're taking a supplement with all three, you likely will get some benefit, but mostly from the MSM. On the bright side, both glucosamine and chondroitin are safe, and have no negative effect other than to drain your pocketbook a little more quickly. So if you think it helps, maybe it does, and doesn't hurt.

Other supplements that have been shown to be beneficial through scientific studies are pycnogenol, Boswellia serrata extract, curcumin/turmeric, and Avocado/soybean unsaponifiables. The latter two combinations are slightly less effective, supposedly, but are rather expensive in comparison.

[blackcat]

I have had issues with trigger finger ( right hand - index ) for almost two years now. A cortisone jab into the pad at the base of the finger one year ago seemed to solve things ( thought not the inflammation of the rest of the hand ) until I stupidly tightened some pvc plumbing under the kitchen sink - by hand. My doctor has now prescribed a second jab for two weeks time. A friend in a similar situation had his doctor hit a nerve when injecting and another had infection introduced.

This has given me pause for thought and the more so since the curcumin I have been taking for over two months now ( 600mg per day), seems (?) to be changing things. The finger is supple as opposed to stiff ( other than when I v.occasionally find it locking if I form a full fist ) and the hand has ceased to be inflamed. Who knows? I have taken cod liver oil pills daily for years and the doc prescribes Vitamin D - 3 monthly.

Interesting findings here: Therapeutic Roles of Curcumin: Lessons Learned from Clinical Trials

PS The most recent issue involved the index becoming set in crooked fashion after twenty minutes practice holding a pick. This is no longer the case. Not perfect, but improving.

[rpjazzguitar]

Here's my experience with injections in finger joints.

Two rheumatologists injected finger joints. I was told that after 5 in the same joint, the injections would stop working. One doc said that he thought that wasn't because of the impact of the injection, but because of the progression of the disease.

One injection, apparently, went into the tendon by accident and the thumb is permanently crooked, although it works fine.

Generally, I thought the injections worked.

BUT

Two hand surgeons disagreed. One injected my thumb (different joint) with no benefit. The other surgeon said that injecting meets the standard of care, but he thought the injections did more harm than good in the long run. I've been following his advice for the last few years -- no more injections so far.

MEANWHILE

I discovered I had low Vitamin D and taking supplements has seemed to help my fingers more than anything else, unless it was simply a matter of time. Vitamin D can cause problems in excess, so it's the kind of thing that has to be medically supervised with blood tests to check levels.

One final point. I live near a city with a symphony orchestra and I play with one of their bassists. So, I asked him to ask around for a hand surgeon who works with musicians. One of them was a gigging musician himself -- and understands how musicians feel about their hands. He used a flouroscope in the office to diagnose the problem, which none of the other docs (including 2 hand surgeons) did. They all agreed about the diagnosis, but the doc with the flouroscope could see it clearly. He injected. He also had some other ideas, including trying to get off statins and going on a gluten free diet, which he recommends to all musicians. He strongly suggested NEVER typing on a keyboard because of the thumb motion.

[lammie200]

...He strongly suggested NEVER typing on a keyboard because of the thumb motion.

I am screwed. Most of the time I am on a computer and even respond to forums is at work. I am at work right now as a matter of fact. Cross my fingers (maybe I shouldn't!) but no thumb problems yet.

[ashleyorm]

Can't go wrong with eating a more anti-inflammatory diet. Also Glucosemine is quite widely recommended. Voltaren is great. Seems to do the trick instantly.
Look into BFST wraps. They promote blood flow through the area you are treating. Helps prevent inflammation from building up. Do a treatment before playing and see if you feel better after some time of doing it routinely. Can't fix arthritis but can manage it.
Might be worth trying. - Tendonitis, Tendinitis, Tendinosis and Tendon Injury Treatment

[rpjazzguitar]

As far as the hand surgeon's recommendations to give up typing ...

The issue is using your thumb for the space bar. That motion is bad for your thumb, according to this doctor.

If you get a thumb brace (mine were made for me in Phys. Therapy), it prevents that motion. Instead, you turn your wrist to get your thumb to depress the space bar. Works fine and becomes intuitive instantly.

I don't know how helpful it really is -- and two other hand surgeons said nothing about it.

[neaxudos]

Last year I experienced joint pain after I was very sick which weakened my body. When I went to the doctor he said my body needed vitamin D. I had low energy, my teeth were hurting and my skin turned pale. A friend of mine told me she takes supplements from purerawz.co for her arthritis. Combined with a healthy diet, supplements improve the autoimmune system and enhance bone density. I ordered some capsules online and after about two months, there were noticeable improvements. Now I have more energy and haven’t experienced any joint pain. My body recovered completely and I even starting going to the gym to build muscle strength.

[rpjazzguitar]

I tried a number of supplements, all recommended by one doctor or another.

Only one seemed to work. That's Vitamin D3.

But, it is possible to take too much, so it's best to ask your doctor for a blood test to measure your current level, then to recommend a daily dosage for some period of time, and recheck it with another blood test.

And, an important thing to bear in mind: I might be wrong.

[strumcat]

I've had pretty bad arthritis for a long time. The things that help me the most are over-the-counter generic naproxen sodium (an NSAID, brand name Aleve if you prefer) and some moderate exercise. In general, if you want to stay as healthy as possible as you get older, the two things to watch are your circulation and inflammation. A good diet is better than supplements imo. Sounds like you're getting quite a bit of exercise. Hope you feel better soon, Fep.

[sgosnell]

I'm lucky, I think. I have minor arthritis in my fingers, but not bad enough to be are real issue. My wife has arthritis in her knees especially, but also in her hands and ankles. She has tried lots of things, none seem to work other than exercise. She gets cortisone shots in her knees once or twice a year when it gets bad. Her orthopedics doc who does the shots recommended using a stationary bike to strengthen her leg muscles, since walking becomes painful, and she has been doing that at the gym for 45 minutes or so at a time, and it has helped her a lot. She still has a problem with stairs, but not nearly as bad as it once was. We're both on Vitamin D and calcium per our PCP for osteopenia, but I can't say for sure whether that has anything to do with joint health.

[jp2558]

Regarding Voltarin, my wife said the stuff in Mexico (2% active ingredient) was more effective than the stuff available in the USA (1% active ingredient).

[ccroft]

As far as the hand surgeon's recommendations to give up typing ...

The issue is using your thumb for the space bar. That motion is bad for your thumb, according to this doctor.

If you get a thumb brace (mine were made for me in Phys. Therapy), it prevents that motion. Instead, you turn your wrist to get your thumb to depress the space bar. Works fine and becomes intuitive instantly.

I don't know how helpful it really is -- and two other hand surgeons said nothing about it.

I spend much of my work day at the keyboard. Plus this place. And over the last year or so texting on the phone has become part of the work-flow. And I started reading news headlines on my phone with morning coffee. I recently started having picking thumb pain. Googling found 'phone thumb'.

I bought a brace from the local drugstore. I slept with it on for a few weeks and use it when I'm working. It has helped tremendously. I've also learned how to use my phone with very little thumb action.

[sgosnell]

I detest text entry on phones. I never learned to thumb type, I use my index finger because it's all I know. It's not fast, at least for me, but I have no thumb pain. So there's that.