Finger Pain (Fretting Hand)

[lammie200]

...As guitar players our fingers are in effect dancing...

I have often thought about that analogy. I also agree with your thoughts on conditioning, etc. One other thing is to make sure your guitar(s) are designed and set up for your own particulars. If all else fails, build a Tele out of parts. The combinations of everything that you can get for neck specs alone are probably in the many hundreds. The hardest part is figuring out what works best.

[Rob MacKillop]

Mrcee, I take issue with only one thing you say: strength. We have far more strength that we need to play a properly set-up guitar. A baby could hold down a note on a guitar. What we need is suppleness. Think yoga, not body building...

[mrblues]

Hi Rob!

I had a serious tendonitis inflammation few years ago, also made a topic here about that, but I am too lazy to find it, what helped me is the website of this guy;

Wrist Tendonitis Treatment - A Quick Fix

You can find here everything what you need to fix your hand. He also mentions that he treated musicians, also.

God Bless,

MrBlues

[bako]

Hey Rob,

I love the crazy wide range of music and instruments that you delve into.
If I were to live an alternate musical life, the path you have taken would be a fun one for sure.
Hoping for a speedy solution and recovery so you can continue to actively pursue this crazy diverse musical
life you've carved out for yourself.

Best,
bako

[Rob MacKillop]

MrBlues - interesting link. I'll give it some attention. Thanks.

Bako - thanks. It's often fun, but there are many times I wish I was one of those guys who has just one instrument, but plays it for life, really getting inside the instrument and it's repertoire. But, as Mae West once put it, I drifted...

[mrcee]

Mrcee, I take issue with only one thing you say: strength. We have far more strength that we need to play a properly set-up guitar. A baby could hold down a note on a guitar. What we need is suppleness. Think yoga, not body building...

I hear what your saying but strength doesn't necessarily mean brute strength. Muscle tone and conditioning maybe is a better concept. Yoga is strengthening but it's not a jock strap thing where the goal is to look like the Incredible Hulk and be able to lift weights. Lots of people with big strong hands can't play the guitar, and if they do take it up their strength doesn't help them much, at least at first. A physical therapist told me that there are large muscle groups and fine ones. I'm not sure about the fingers but many if not all joints have these fine muscles close to the bone. These fine muscles may be what in cattle are the filet mignon that is so prized for it's tenderness. The muscle along the animals spine. I understand that these fine muscles don't really get exercised with conventional weight lifting and other such obvious things but are really important to orthopedic health. Resistance exercise is what does it with things like the elastic bands. I don't know if a baby can hold down a note on a guitar, or for how long. I'll take your word for it. And holding down a note isn't playing a guitar. You've got to move your fingers and hand around. You watch a lot of really great guitarists play and their hands and fingers appear to be truly supple but yet some of these same people develop serious problems. If there was an easy answer to health problems we'd all live to be 120. And, conversely, a lot of big strong guys wipe out their backs doing physical labor because they don't have that suppleness you mention, and maybe they don't have well conditioned small, fine muscles. And we all hear about weak abdominal muscles being involved with back problems. I'm not a healthcare professional, maybe one can weigh in.

My personal experience is having lots of finger and hand issues. I'm missing almost a half an inch off my left hand pinky which throws the geometry of my hand off setting me up for all kinds of problems. I once fell 5 feet and and broke my fall with my outstretched arm, landing on my hand injuring my left wrist. I had it x-rayed and it said it was a bad sprain but another Dr said maybe there was an invisible hairline fracture. It got better with time but not 100% until I started doing strengthening exercises. Now it's virtually completely fine. I've been unable to play too often from a variety of issues until I embarked on a program of stretching and strengthening, under the supervision of a Dr and physical therapist. I stretch first before the gentle strengthening exercises with the elastic bands and a small 2 lb. weight. If one of my hands isn't 100% I'll support it with the other while using the weight. Maybe just holding it or moving it very little. But I'll try and do something. I'm not sure but maybe part of the deal is to increase blood flow to the area.

But one things for sure. Regardless of suppleness or strength or whatever if a person has an injury or a dysfunction like arthritis they need all the help they can get and do whatever it takes. And don't reinjure or aggravate it through continued playing. This notion that a person can ''work through'' their injury or condition by continuing to do what caused the problem seems foolish to me.

[Jazzstdnt]

Rob - if it's OA (meaning some thinning of the cartilage in your PIP and/or DIP joints) then yes, the first finger seems to take the brunt, then the middle, and so on.

Another thing, if you play in the first/open position a fair amount, that will give the first finger a lot of extra stress it doesn't need, competing with the nut and all. I have met acoustic guitarists in their late 20s who were already complaining about their first finger pain (open position playing, heavy strings, high action, high tension)

Good luck and keep us posted.

[Rob MacKillop]

Well observed. I have to do a lot of C, F, G7 in open position with beginners, but am finding ways of playing those and others, D, D7, A, E, etc, without using the first finger when the student is too wrapped up in their own problems to notice mine. It's become quite an amusing game I play with myself.

[darkwaters]

I've taken to immersing my hands in very warm water for a minute or so before playing, and find it does help for a while.

Dissolve a quarter cup of Epsom Salts in the (very warm) water. Immerse your hands and gently massage and stretch them for about 5 mins. Then practice. Your hands will feel like they're 18 again !

[blackcat]

Hope it is OK to revive this thread in the sense that someone may be able to help with my problem.

In short, around 18 months ago I experienced trigger finger issues with the index finger of my right hand. After X-rays and echography ( revealing a minor old injury ) my doctor arranged a cortisone shot in the palm of the hand on the sheath. This worked fine for maybe seven or eight months. Earlier this year I found myself re-plumbing the pvc waste pipes under the kitchen sink and stupidly tightened the final ring/sleeve on the trap - with my right hand. Since then, my right finger will not fully straighten after say twenty minutes of playing and holding the pick between thumb and forefinger ( I hold the pick between thumb and tip of the finger ). The hand becomes inflamed and although icing +/- Ibuprufen can help they do nothing for continuing practice. The finger locks if I form a full fist. The doctor will not prescribe a second cortisone jab unless trigger finger returns.

Yesterday, I consulted a chiropractor who manipulated hand,arm, shoulder and neck and there did seem to be some improvement. He instructed me to lay of playing or gripping anything for 36 hours and I see him again on Friday. Not totally convinced however, and wondering what to do next. Acupuncture perhaps.

If anyone has a take on this I really would be grateful for their input.

Many thanks.

David

[TF]

I have a similar condition to that of the OP. Nowadays, I perform on an a/e nylon string, using a pick. The low string tension has alleviated much of my left index finger pain.

Sometimes if I'm feeling pain-free I play a 24-3/4 inch scale flat-top steel-string a/e with extra-light strings, .010 - .050 gauge. I've never been a low-action guy, but I'm into it now!

I've had some nice archtop guitars - don't have one now - but am I right in thinking that extra-light strings won't hold an archtop guitar's floating bridge in place? Archtops are probably over for me now.

[sgosnell]

Light strings will hold the bridge in place just fine, but they may not drive the top for maximum volume and tone. Amplified, they should be ok.

[rpjazzguitar]

A tip that might be relevant to someone.

Rheumatologists will tell you that Vitamin D levels are involved with joint pain.

You can't safely take it willy-nilly. But you can have your level checked and a deficiency, if any, treated.

If your hands hurt, it's worth asking your doctor about.

[dot75]

...could help to put the fingers into a warm substrate like sand or rice or whatever is available, and move the fingers around for a some minutes. ...

Anybody with any sense knows Porridge is the one true breakfast of champions - The OP himself has mentioned this in previous threads, when will the world wake up ?

Hope it worked out...

[Robertkoa]

That's great, Ol' Fret! I might even take that along to the doc. I think you might be right about the PIP and DIP connection, and it is indeed almost impossible to curve the finger to meet the palm crease. Actually, none of my RIGHT-hand fingers can do that either, but I don't seem to have a problem playing.

So, what's the solution other than ibuprofen?

There is a Gel - I have not tried it but works for many.

It reduces inflammation but instead of taking it orally - it is applied directly to the joints - it works on joints near the surface - especially fingers .

Higher blood levels are achieved by topical application in the target area - compared to oral and there's less side effects .

The chemical name is Diclofenac Sodium ( not to be confused with the Song )
made also as Voltaren Gel and other Generics with Diclofenac as active ingredient in 1% 2% 3% strengths.

Prescription only in USA - everywhere else over the counter...

[blackcat]

I have a similar condition to that of the OP. Nowadays, I perform on an a/e nylon string, using a pick. The low string tension has alleviated much of my left index finger pain.

Sometimes if I'm feeling pain-free I play a 24-3/4 inch scale flat-top steel-string a/e with extra-light strings, .010 - .050 gauge. I've never been a low-action guy, but I'm into it now!

I've had some nice archtop guitars - don't have one now - but am I right in thinking that extra-light strings won't hold an archtop guitar's floating bridge in place? Archtops are probably over for me now.

Thanks Thoughtfree - appreciated. However, I think that it is the 'act' of freezing the finger in a set position in order to grip the pick ( given my history of trigger finger ( previously released after a cortisone jab ) and internal injury ( indicated on x-rays ) ) over a period of 20 - 30 minutes that encourage it to adopt a fixed/non-straight attitude. Relieved by icing and exercise. Treating the inflammation with Turmeric ( prefer it to NSAIDS ) and arnica. Age, I guess!

[blackcat]

A tip that might be relevant to someone.

Rheumatologists will tell you that Vitamin D levels are involved with joint pain.

You can't safely take it willy-nilly. But you can have your level checked and a deficiency, if any, treated.

If your hands hurt, it's worth asking your doctor about.

Many thanks RP. the doc prescribed this some time ago ( no connection with this problem and I take a small phial of the stuff every 3 months. Tested levels indicate that I am up to scratch in that department. I have now been told that it is to do with a flexor tendon but not sure if anything can be done about it other than surgery which I am reluctant to go with.

[blackcat]

There is a Gel - I have not tried it but works for many.

It reduces inflammation but instead of taking it orally - it is applied directly to the joints - it works on joints near the surface - especially fingers .

Higher blood levels are achieved by topical application in the target area - compared to oral and there's less side effects .

The chemical name is Diclofenac Sodium ( not to be confused with the Song )
made also as Voltaren Gel and other Generics with Diclofenac as active ingredient in 1% 2% 3% strengths.

Prescription only in USA - everywhere else over the counter...

Many thanks Robert. Currently applying Arnica and it works fine for the inflammation but of course does not stop the finger adopting it's not straight profile after playing. Thanks again.

[Jesse J]

I have been having index finger pain in the metacarpal portion of my palm for about two months now. I saw two hand physios right away, one put it in a splint for 3 weeks but told me I could keep playing and lifting weights (im a personal trainer) it did not lesson up. Next my doctor began giving me trigger point injections in the palm and finger, I have now had 4, not much difference, he also gave me diclofenac gel to apply. I saw a physio twice that did shockwave therapy and laser therapy two times now. I am waiting to see a specialist finally, but could be a long while. I have heard that the fascia is tight or that it is from compression, nobody has given me a "this is what it is" diagnosis. I had an x-ray done, nothing, no pain to the touch, no clicking or locking, can't immediately bring on pain, just over time.

It gets worse throughout the day, lessons with heat for a bit I think. Is gone by morning when I wake up. My old splint, along with very cold water, has been giving me pins and needles in the backside of my finger, thinking my splint was too tight. I made my own splint from tape and have noticed a decrease today. I was thinking carpal tunnel but the doctor said he doesn't think so. I am beginning to think it is flexor tendinitis, anyone have experience with this? I have shows coming up, and I can play guitar without pain, but seems the pain increases the next few days after. Any tips or info is greatly appreciated.

[Cunamara]

Have you tried giving it a rest for a couple of weeks, not playing guitar or lifting weights, and seeing if that helps? I don't know if your shows are still on the schedule; pretty much all public music performances around here have been canceled for the next two weeks at a minimum. That, of course, creates huge income problems for professional musicians.

[Alter]

The measures you have taken, both a splinter and injections seem extreme to me, without seeing a specialist? I've seen more bad than good come out of doctor diagnosis when they weren't specialists on treating musicians or athletes, dancers, etc, someone close to our use of the hands.

Also I've seen doctors eager to over prescribe, or favor extreme (and expensive) treatments. So I would try (as I have done in the past), to find a really good specialist doctor, and I would also try to follow the most median treatment advice.

Usually healing involves a lengthy period of having pain. But, you have to be sure you are actually healing and not causing any more damage.

Best of luck, and try to keep spirits up. Hands do heal!

[lukmanohnz]

Another thread discussing hand pain here.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Take some time off. If playing causes pain, that's your body's way of telling you you're doing damage. Take a break. If it's your fretting hand, try you hand at slide to give your connective tissues a break.

[whiskey02]

I would be shocked if playing guitar was the cause of your pain, while it certainly can bring out pain from an existing injury. My upper body is not particularly strong but after a short while of twice weekly full body training on machines I found myself struggling on pulling exercises (lat pull down, seated rows) not in moving the 170lb weight with the muscles being trained but with my fingers maintaining grip on the bar. This after when I initially started out, I was holding “weighted” cables doing step up exercises. My legs are strong from skating so I was using a fair amount of resistance and holding those cables for a good while. I pushed through the pain in my forearms/hands because that’s what I’ve always done in the past. When I came to my senses and realized I’d injured myself and stopped doing that exercise it took close to six months for the pain to subside. I would make a substantial blind bet that as a trainer you are lifting much heavier weights than me and more frequently. I suggest that you stop doing any exercise that requires effort from your fingers/forearms. Ask your doctor for a prescription anti inflammatory and see how you feel after a few months. I would not touch a guitar for a few weeks, then see if you can play without pain. At the first hint of discomfort set it down.
The best of luck to you.

[Rachel444]

I've recently faced the same issue. So, I'm glad that I've found this discussion. Thanks for sharing your knowledge, it is very helpful for me. Having surfed the Internet, I found out that CBD oil can help, and I'm thinking about trying it. Does anyone have experience with it?