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Originally Posted by christianm77
Thanks.
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05-05-2016 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
this is something else to remember....time was if someone was playing music, people didn't talk over it, they were riveted.
you see people didn't hear music all the time. They only time they got to hear music was when somebody was actually playing. Even after the advent of radio, radio sets and record players were like pieces of furniture. You didn't carry them around with you.
back then music wasn't wallpaper.
people didn't listen to music all day while they did other stuff
when they listened to music, they listened to music
those days are long gone
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Originally Posted by dortmundjazzguitar
Clifford Brown, McCoy Tyner etc - these are great jazz musicians. Jazz musicians will listen to them and hold them up as exemplars of the art - just as we do Mehldau etc today. They are very much within the tradition and part of the main course of our art form. So the comparison seems pretty apt to me.
I wouldn't equal CC with Metheny, if only because CC is in such a singular position as the first well known electric player for the whole of 20th century popular music. Someone his equal in jazz guitar would have to have a lot of influence outside of jazz to essentially be the archetype/creator. That's a big ask. I can only really think of Jimi Hendrix as being in the same class of importance. Essentially every in between is an irrelevance (I know I'm being very cruel, but jazz guitar is basically a sideshow) and everything after Jimi has been influenced by him even if only by rejection.
But the big figures? The icons of our music? I can't see anyone out there personally.
I kind of get the feeling we agree on the general stuff TBH.
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Originally Posted by Nate Miller
Jazz got louder as time progressed because audiences didn't sit quietly (or dance, which while active, isn't a particularly loud activity) By the 70's you had quintets playing as loud as a big band. I blame the 60's. All that revolution and free thinking and challenging authority and free love shit made people RUDE.
And I'm only kind of kidding
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05-05-2016, 02:11 PM #55dortmundjazzguitar GuestOriginally Posted by christianm77
i dont see the icon either in "jazz" music, but tbh who are the geniuses or just icons in other fields of human endeavour these days? that would be a nice topic
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Originally Posted by christianm77
I teach music to kids, rock band classes. They don't understand what's a big deal about the passing of Prince or Bowie for example, or 'icons' like that. Because they don't have any icons of their own, it's only something that their parents did, so they just shrug. It's not a rebellion thing either, it's just ... a void or something.
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
I think some of the blame for rising audience noise levels also has to be attributed to the rise in noise levels generally - recorded music, rock bands etc.
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yea, I just don't get kids today. I'm so glad that I got to grow up when I did and not in the world of today
I got to have real freedom and also real innocence. We played outside all day long. we didn't have grown ups around all the time, so we had to sort it out for ourselves. My school hire professional bullies to see to it we were bullied properly and that we could cope with being in the workforce. These kids today are all soft. They get a leg broke and they start bitching
no, the more we talk about this, the more I see that it is young people that are the real problem
which is good news. I was afraid it was my generation that dropped the ball, but as long as we got the Millenials to kick around, 40s the new 20, right fellas?
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Originally Posted by Nate Miller
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Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
i think this is important
but i'm not sure that the last 40 years or so have had too much of the sensitive re-discovery of established forms going on. more trying to be new for newness sake than that i think. and most of that doesn't work.
remember the renaissance - that was a re-discovery of established forms - and it was not too shabby in the creativity department
i think that pure late forties be-bop is much under-developed - and hard-bop too
loads more there to re-hear - and that can generate a lot of new music
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So the music of a finite past is 'better' than the music that may happen in an infinite future?
I guess I don't agree.
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An infinite future... Such refreshing optimism.
I didn't say any such thing btw :-)
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Originally Posted by rictroll
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Originally Posted by Groyniad
Because, for me, it has so much emotion when played with passion.
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For mine, somebody thats pushed the music forward while having a phenomenal grasp of the tradition is Steve Coleman. I think he will leave behind a vast legacy and an important body of work for people to study. Hes created a certain style. Is a bandleader, that has also nurtured and grown other bandleaders in his groups.
cheersLast edited by Jazzism; 05-06-2016 at 10:39 AM.
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If someone were searching for post 70's source material ie. songs to create a new standard jazz repetoire of harmonically rich, melodic tunes, I would look to Prince, Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder, Jon Brion, D'Angelo to name a few. I'm just saying there's a lot of great songs that have been written since Tin Pan Alley, and chances are a civilian audience would delight to hear genius improvisations on a theme they already know by any artists as opposed to one more attempt at Stella.
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Originally Posted by eddy b.
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Why are we always lamenting that things aren't happening when they're happening, right now?
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Stevebol, with respect, 1st. I live in New Orleans home of the greatest drumming tradition in all of North America so trust me I have 15 drummers I can call right now
that can play those parts blind drunk, 2nd the concept is to take tunes from those artist and inject our own personality and musical concepts into their music as an example the Cardigans covering Black Sabbath's Iron Man.
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I'm going to disagree with just about everyone. There's a lot of great, vital music being made that I think holds up. And that's been true from 1970 all the way to the present day.
I don't know how you would compare something to Charlie Parker or Duke Ellington. Frankly, it's hard enough to compare Duke Ellington to Charlie Parker, and we have the advantage of hindsight.
All a musician can do is make the best art possible as a response to the times they live in, and there are plenty of musicians doing that right now.
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mr b.
e,g. that first track is very interesting - but only if you've spent the last twenty years playing jazz
the great music we're talking about (20s-70's etc.) managed to combine depth (interest - subtlety whatever) with immediacy
e.g. nat king cole singing paper moon; sonny rollins playing you don't know what love is; parker playing just friends with strings etc. etc.
this stuff is immensely intellectual and 'high-brow' - its happening now - and its great - but its for musical specialists (or phonies who are trying to come off as musical hipsters)
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Originally Posted by Groyniad
Well, I think Joey D doing the Quincy Jones tune isn't too academic, it's funky, it's got soul...
But I see what you mean.
My post was in response to the lament that modern players are playing Stella over and over and not looking for new stuff to make into "jazz," because that's a false premise. If you actually listen to modern jazz, lots of folks are finding new tunes...
The other thing is, writing is becoming cool again. Some of the best jazz artists out there today are releasing whole records of new compositions.
I think this is a great time for the music. So much great stuff coming out, so many great players. I think a lot of people just aren't looking for it...it seems some would rather read the liners to a blue note classic again and lament "jazz is dead" rather than go out and hear somebody new.
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
there's a good deal of this sort of thing that goes on - you're absolutely right
but i'm addicted to the feel of intense swing and if it doesn't give me some version of that - usually because of a rock-based approach to the time (even the first of your clips employs that) - then i lose interest very quickly.
the joey d. clip is a different beast of course - its 'direct' or straightforward - but the time feel is not my thing at all, i want to say - because its not a jazz time feel. (for me e.g. the a typical bill evans ballad swings much more)
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i'm just listening to chick corea's trilogy
that's some fresh music - great feel - great sound - done to death tune
eg.
16" 1920s/30s L5
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