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Before I thank you Marinero I need to know what 'JGF' means? Did you just say I look fat in these jeans?
Originally Posted by Marinero
You are 1000% correct.. and although I use computers a lot, (network engineer/IT Specialist) I have not had a television or radio in my home for over maybe 27 years. They make one stupid.
My internet use is highly selective and very specific.
When I'm not at home reading voraciously, tending my bonsai plants, keeping fit, painting, drawing or diddling with the guitar for up 8 hours at a time and creating stuff in Logic Pro, and helping raise my two little lovely goddaughters I'm out on my big fat adventure motorbike, living in a tiny tent surviving on my wits in nature.
So far to date I have ridden that thing alone a quarter of a million miles over 41 different countries. Including across the entire Sahara Desert.. twice.
As regards the ever increasingly dumb masses I have sadly had to disengage from them completely and simply live as though they don't exist. That works for me pretty well as I am pretty self-contained and self-entertaining.
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11-12-2022 09:40 AM
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Hi, M, Originally Posted by Maxxx
Before I thank you Marinero I need to know what 'JGF' means? Did you just say I look fat in these jeans?
You are 1000% correct.. and although I use computers a lot, (network engineer/IT Specialist) I have not had a television or radio in my home for over maybe 27 years. They make one stupid.
My internet use is highly selective and very specific.
When I'm not at home reading voraciously, tending my bonsai plants, keeping fit, painting, drawing or diddling with the guitar for up 8 hours at a time and creating stuff in Logic Pro, and helping raise my two little lovely goddaughters I'm out on my big fat adventure motorbike, living in a tiny tent surviving on my wits in nature.
So far to date I have ridden that thing alone a quarter of a million miles over 41 different countries. Including across the entire Sahara Desert.. twice.
As regards the ever increasingly dumb masses I have sadly had to disengage from them completely and simply live as though they don't exist. That works for me pretty well as I am pretty self-contained and self-entertaining.
JGF=Jazz Guitar Forum. And, when you say "As regards the ever increasingly dumb masses I have sadly had to disengage from them completely and simply live as though they don't exist. . . " it is easier said than done unless you're a complete loner. However, I, also, have that experience when I'm sailing offshore with only the wind, waves, and my sailboat dancing to the polyphonic rhythm of the waves. It is the only thing besides literature and music that makes me feel so alive.
Marinero
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Played with my jazz groove quartet last night and talked to a very young couple in the audience (20 y.o. perhaps?). It was their second date and they happily paid $10 to enter the venue to see a band they’d never heard of. They loved us very much and asked me what type of music we played (we did some Ronny Jordan tunes, Lou Donaldson, Grant Green and our own groovy stuff) so I explained them it’s jazz on the groovy side of the spectrum. They were surprised and told me they never listen to jazz because it’s that ‘nervous busy music they don’t understand’. They were very impressed by what we did, though, and liked it a lot. So I explained jazz is so much broader than just fast bebop or experimental free jazz. Hope I made a couple of new jazz fans….!
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Loner for you maybe be different for me.. I raise 2 little goddaughters remember. That's a whole bunch of engagement right there. Originally Posted by Marinero
I used to have my own jazz quartet for a good few years playing out every single night... but currently I can quite happily sit at home and play/study guitar for 12 hours straight for months and months on end. Am I alone? Yes. Am I lonely? Never.
My first big ride was 58,000 miles again in my tent across 29 different countries one after another. I was riding for 18 months by myself. Was alone? Yes. Was I lonely? Never.
Actually that's not quite accurate. Only when riding through large densely populated capitals did I suddenly feel desperately lonely, disconnected and isolated. But that feeling quickly dissipated as soon as I got back out into the country, hills, mountains, forrests, jungle or deserts.
When you travel across land so much and move through so many places and so many people while crossing entire countries through literally hundreds of cities and thousands of towns
and villages you start to discover that the human template begins to repeat itself. You come across veritable clones and personality types/behaviours of people you have met before albeit
with a few minor variations.
Do that for a few decades and I suspect you too may lose that glee and shine for meeting yet more of the same. Particularly as society is on an increasingly downward moral trajectory and accelerating.
A few of these countries I have ridden across up to 8 times, like France. In doing that you get to see the changes objectively in the moods, attitudes and behaviours of that society over extended years.
What I have seen is not good. Like Siddhartha I no longer want any of it.
There is far more to life than mere humans and the unseen world is far greater than the seen world.
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"Like Siddhartha I no longer want any of it." Maxxx
Hi, M,
Yes.
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Jazz isn't popular because music theory doesn't interest most people (regardless of IQ), and because making music that sounds good to average people doesn't interest most jazz musicians. There's nothing wrong with that either way.
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I had a thought on this-
NOBODY likes jazz enough to leave their house to see it live.
EVERYBODY likes jazz if they are already out of the house and stumble upon a live jazz performance.
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^ Exactly lol. It's good music. When it's cookin, laypeople always take notice.
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There's a lot of jazz being played and listened to.
But, I think it would be more popular if it wasn't so doggone difficult to play really well.
I think that jazz which is played at a high level and which isn't intellectually inaccessible (discuss) is well liked.
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That isn't true. Some jazz musicians are out of touch with the effect on the listener but many aren't. Jazz isn't unpopular because it is by definition theory and unappealing, it's because there's no competing with the pop machine. All the morons are going to listen to whatever is new and stupid and they're not going to listen to whatever is old and artistic. Lots of good music constantly gets passed by. That doesn't mean the reason is it's theory. Originally Posted by strumcat
Last edited by Bobby Timmons; 12-08-2022 at 05:09 AM.
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Anyway, if you're bored with jazz...
Unusual Music Genres You Need to Hear Now - Score Short Reads - Highonscore | The Score Magazine
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The head-head-solos-head format of the straight-ahead standard is not very welcoming to strangers. It is unlike the song forms most of us know, and there is no singing. There is a lot of head, and solos – which can be bewildering and boring to listeners who do not understand what the soloists are doing (or what instruments they are playing) And when they are done, it is time for more head.
True followers of the cult of straight-ahead will tell us (often) that the standards are the best songs ever written and deserve to be played again and again, but for most listeners they are just old and in the way. Younger players seem more interested in original compositions. One day, something new might attract the attention of a wider audience as the Köln Concert did in 1975. Anything can happen.
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The end of this pretty much sums it up.
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[QUOTE]The head-head-solos-head format of the straight-ahead standard is not very welcoming to strangers. It is unlike the song forms most of us know, and there is no singing. There is a lot of head, and solos – which can be bewildering and boring to listeners who do not understand what the soloists are doing (or what instruments they are playing) And when they are done, it is time for more head.
[/QUOTE]
"Time for more head?" Are we talking about jazz or...?
I'm 63, does that make me a younger player? I prefer original music to standards most of the time. How many more performances of "All The Things You Are" does the world need? I could go the rest of my life without hearing that tune played again. I could go the rest of my days without hearing a 7 chorus tenor sax solo again, too. There are exceptions, of course. Gene Bertoncini's approach to standards is refreshing, for example.True followers of the cult of straight-ahead will tell us (often) that the standards are the best songs ever written and deserve to be played again and again, but for most listeners they are just old and in the way. Younger players seem more interested in original compositions. One day, something new might attract the attention of a wider audience as the Köln Concert did in 1975. Anything can happen.
The reason it's not popular is that jazz has gotten boring and predictable. Bill Frisell, Julian Lage, Jonathan Kreisberg, the Bad Plus and others have found new ground to till and have the relative popularity to show for it. This for me disproves the "the world is going to hell in a handbasket" thinking.
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About ATTYA, the World needs yours. Originally Posted by Cunamara
I don't think it's predictable.
There are popular versions, some emulate them (that's predictable), others play their own version.
I might be wrong but every time I play a standard I know (or believe I know), it is not really the same.
It's been more noticeable since I play again with other people.
There is always an audience, not necessary the one who spills beer everywhere and say : "I love music, yeah come on, The House Of The Rising Sun, Don't You Know Pump It Up, you're trumpet looks like a pipe, play Pink Panther, I also play the guitar... Play a blues, that doesn't sound like a guitar, play Highway To Hell, you need a singer, I'm the one. Oh you play shit... Can you play No Woman No Cry, With Or Without You, Let It Be ? What's happening ? You make them sound the same ?!! That's shit !"
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I make my pupils sing Autumn Leaves (French and English versions), What A Wonderful World, Summertime, The Days Of Wine And Roses. You know what ? They like !
They sometimes see my stupid videos and they enjoy them.
They ask what it's about, I say it's something that works as McDonald's "Come as you are !" except the cook is yourself.
They like the concept.
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makes some points. and his followup
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I'm just the opposite, I don't need to hear another "original" tune that has less changes than So What, no melody and no direction. Originally Posted by Cunamara
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Darn,, I kinda liked BS Jazz Originally Posted by AllanAllen
just didn't know what it was called, I do now
S
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If it ain't 3 qordz'a it don't sell.
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Good jazz = good music
I don't think it's so hard, and at the same time it's really hard lol.
Musicians are often quite poor judges of music because we tend to hear the technicalities (which massively paraphrases Bill Evans), so many musicians like things that are technically accomplished.
But that doesn't mean the music is good. It just means it's well done.
Ultimately we are the worst judges of our own work too. Which is fun, because we are also expected to 'sell ourselves.'
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^ I like analyzing what is effective for youtube musicians where they try to be as catchy and impressive as possible. A lot of the time, being a good technical player is extremely important for that. My favorite youtube musician is Charles Berthoud who is a friggin bassist. But he plays like his instrument is no object and completely dominates across all aspects of music.
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:-) Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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There's a half-joking formula that I think applies to art in general: The Same Only Different. Which is to say, familiarity and surprise, tradition and innovation, expectations-fulfilled and expectations-denied, comfort and exploration, all in tension and in infinitely varied proportions.
"Popular" art, I suspect, is biased toward The Same, with maybe just enough Different to distinguish Work A from Work B. Dixieland/trad jazz retains its audience partly because it remains within the bounds of its historical forms and conventions. Significant segments of the bluegrass world share those attitudes and values. "Newgrass" and "dawg music" peeled off portions of the traditional audience and set up new territories which overlapped the older ones.
Bebop introduced more than one flavor of Different--it became more harmonically and rhythmically adventurous, which separated it from the social-dance culture that had supported swing, and it became more of a listening music, and more demanding of both players and audience. And that audience was smaller than the general social-dancing audience. (My mother, born in 1921, loved big-band swing and dance bands but found bop and post-bop to be just a lot of notes. But then, she wasn't much for hot dance bands, either--too darn fast, as Chuck Berry would later put it.)
The Same Only Different affects creators as well as their audiences--and traditions that encourage Different attract the most restless, innovative, ingenious creators. But those creators might find themselves outpacing even their adventurous audiences. It's an old dance, and some artists dance right over the edge of the cliff.
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