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After not having any back pain for over a year, my back is once again a source of daily pain and has been for about a month. The longer I play, the more it hurts. I played the new Godin for a couple hours this morning and was fine (or at least as fine as can be after spending a week in pain).
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05-05-2014 03:43 PM
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Naproxin, as needed... I like to cook, a lot. But standing over a cutting board and hot stove plays heck on my legs and back... Naproxin and a glass of something fine help take away the pain.
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Get thee to an osteopath!
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Might be the archtop, or might just be that you are sitting a bit differently with the archtop.
I always alternate between sitting and standing when I practice. That keeps my back pain away. Too much sitting will literally kill you, if the current science is to be believed.
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Jim, as you know I had spinal surgery about 10 years ago. About 10 days ago, I had a severe nerve pain going down my right shoulder into the bicep that I hadn't felt since pre-surgery. I believe it was related to the fact that I was practicing my 175 so much which is really a thick guitar. I practiced for a few days on my Pat Metheny PM-120 and after a few days the nerve pain went away. It was really scary. After a recent gig in which I played continuous and standing for 3 hours, I had a lot of neck and shoulder pain though not with the nerve pain this time. I would play the Metheny more but it weighs at least 2 lbs more and the thinner body advantage is negated by the weight.
Not sure what the solution is but probably some time of tonal compromise...
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Nsaids can cause problems if used continually for long periods. Bleeding stomach/intestinal track is no fun at all
Originally Posted by BigMikeinNJ
http://www.rheumatology.org/Practice...mmatory_Drugs/
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Come to the Dark Side, Jim ....
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I found an old, cheap but solid tall wooden stool that had the rungs perfectly placed so it allowed me to use a classical position with my Eastman AR810CE which is a 17" full depth hollow body. With a strap and sitting on my left thigh (I'm right handed) in the classical position, I can play for 1.5 hours + with no soreness or discomfort. I also took one of those 1/2" blue high density foam camping pads and cut it up and layered it 5 deep on the stool seat and then wrapped it in some soft calf leather I got as an off-cut from an upholstery project we were doing. Cost me $5 for the stool.
The thing with this is you can let that big body sink a bit between you legs so it's nicely centered. I used to have a 17" Aria AR71 that I played conventionally on my right thigh and I wondered why I was sore after 20 minutes.Last edited by DRS; 05-05-2014 at 09:25 PM.
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Bit of an overshare. Originally Posted by DRS
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We are all built differently Jim so we will have different solutions. I will add my experience to the discussion.
I have had lower and between the shoulder blade back problems since my early 20's.
I practice the guitar a lot and was a fanatic at that age.
I cared not how I sat. I never gave it a thought. I was always hunched over the instrument…always bent over the instrument.
I was at the chiropractor at least once sometimes twice a week…..for many years.
Once a chiropractor stood me in front of a mirror and pointed out how my body was completely lop sided. One shoulder higher than the other. One arm more developed. Totally out of whack.
In my late 30's I stopped playing the guitar fanatically and just used it as a writing tool.
I stopped for 20 years.
No back pain. No chiropractors. No nothing.
I started playing again about 4 years ago. Back pain was back.
I started using the "lap strap" method.
No back pain. Nada.
Why? I wondered.
Because I was sitting up dead straight. My back pushed into a high backed chair. My shoulders were straight and the guitar neck angled upward.
Joy.
Lately I have changed from the Lap Strap to a regular strap. The guitar sits high and off my legs….suspended.
My back is straight and pushed into the back of my high backed chair.
No back pain.
Good luck.
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Sitting up straight has always been the key for me. I have real problems doing that with an arch top because I have to reach over the body so I end up bending over the guitar. With a plank on a strap or with a foot rest, I can get the guitar right up against my body and it forces me to sit much more upright. The problem has been diagnosed as a partially ton ligament. It never heals completely but and when it doesn't get stressed, it heals enough to not be a problem. When it hurts, it's because it's torn more and right now it's miserable. Naproxin or Ibuprofin get me through the day when it's like this, but it's definitely not any kind of real solution. Originally Posted by Philco
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I've always thought Joe Pass had the most natural-looking sitting posture. I've tried to model it, but it is a work in progress.
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Yeah! Interesting thing is where his forearm touches the body. Puts his hand right over the front pup. Also has the advantage of a raised neck. Originally Posted by Jehu
I've always thought Joe Pass had the most natural-looking sitting posture. I've tried to model it, but it is a work in progress.
Joe had quite a few things worked out.
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Hi Jack Originally Posted by jzucker
I don't know if you saw that's I picked up a Godin A6 Ultra last week. It's turning out to be a nice find both in the comfort of the playing position and the ability to dial in a surprisingly nice tone by blending a bit of the piezo in with the neck hum bucker. It's not perfect by any means. The frets are much smaller than I like and the neck is thinner than I prefer but after three days I'm encouraged by the possibilities.
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Possible your strap is the wrong length. If you're not using a strap, you probably need a footstool. I'll bet one or the other fixes your back. Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
After not having any back pain for over a year, my back is once again a source of daily pain and has been for about a month. The longer I play, the more it hurts. I played the new Godin for a couple hours this morning and was fine (or at least as fine as can be after spending a week in pain).
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I do use a footstool. Originally Posted by SuperFour00
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Jim have a look at this link.... a lot of especially pro classical musicians swear by alexander technique .... it helped me with problems i developed when playing double bass back in my early career .... also suffered terrible neck /back/shoulder issues ...this is worth a look and i can personally testify to it's results ..Musicians and the Alexander Technique
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When Joe played it looked effortless. His posture, the guitar position, his hand positions. Like he didn't have to think about the guitar at all and could just focus on the music. Everything seemed free. 35 years I've been playing the guitar and I am still not even close... perhaps freeing the body when playing helps free the mind to be creative. Mine's still all gummed up. Originally Posted by Jehu
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I've been studying Alexander Technique for under a year now - great stuff. However, my AT teacher stresses that bio-mechanics & ergonomics are not specifically AT, but rather AT is a philosophy, or approach to movement which incorporates many aspects (more so our internal processes as relating to movement). So AT in conjunction with an improved knowledge of bio-mechanics and ergonomics is where it's at for me.
Now that I'm pushing 40, I started getting different physical problems playing my 175 ('06 model) due to it's heavy weight and body thickness, so I recently switched to a Painter P-16. It's got a 2.5" body depth and is incredibly light - so far so good, my body loves it.
Since the Painter is so light, I pretty much now always play standing up in an effort to reduce any fixed points of tension I may have anywhere throughout my body. I'm starting to think that playing for extended periods sitting down can compromise the body quite a bit in several ways that start to show up as problems as we age.
My2c - it's a work in progress like anything, and I'm no expert with this stuff but so far I've improved my personal situation by trying different things out.
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I used to use one, but I found with the size of a Super 400, I need to let the strap do the hard work. Also, I discovered I was wearing my guitar too high. When I found the right position for me: not too high, facing straight forward, guitar slightly tilted toward me ... no more back and neck problems. Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
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I second the lap strap method. After someone here in this forum kindly demonstrated it to me, I've been a convert. It is the only way to play that I've found where you can get the neck angle right and still have your back straight. Very comfortable and no (in my case) shoulder pain. Originally Posted by Philco
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Ever try a cushion like a Dynarette? I play a lot of classical and starting using one instead of a footstool. Probably should have got one years ago. Raising that foot isn't too good for the back and the cushion made a big difference for the better. Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
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Now, I know how much you like your new Heritage - more than the pain it causes. For my part, I have found a solution in a thinline 17" archtop (a Painter P-350). I have it on a strap and I allow it to have the face somewhat upwards (much like the way Wes held his guitar). A guitar teacher won't like that, but I find it works OK and it takes away the strain in the right upper arm. I use my full depth 19" Triggs for 4-to-the-bar and have it positioned much like Freddie Green and that way the big size and 3 1/4" depth is not really felt. I use a rubber cloth on the thigh to ensure the guitar doesn't slide anywhere. It causes a lot of tension if I constanly have to keep it in place and/or bring it back in place and depite leading to pains in the long run it also disturbs the smooth pulse.
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There is nothing that I like enough to tolerate pain. In the end, I've always considered guitars to just be tools and if I decide that as tool the Heritage doesn't work for me, I would have absolutely no hesitation in selling it no matter how much I like the musical results that I get from it. Originally Posted by oldane
Last edited by Jim Soloway; 05-06-2014 at 11:00 AM.
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I got neck and back problems gigging with rock and country bands for years. Finally two years ago I had a custom built chambered 'tele' with wider neck built for me, closely followed by another 'esquire' version. Both weigh just over 5lbs each and do not neck dive.
Since getting these built by a custom builder locally, Eternal Guitars, I have almost eliminated the problems I had before. I also shortened the strap, I gig mainly standing up, and at the end of an evening these guitars are no problem at all.
My feet are another matter.....but that leads us off topic!
I've owned and played a few acoustic archtops too, and have established, now, that a 16" wide (max) body, with a max depth of 2-2.5" and a 25" scale and 1 3/4" nut is as big as I can handle for more than 20 mins comfortably. Again lightness is critical, but I play archtops seated. I'm currently planning to try a Peerless Maestro, although I would love to order a Campellone built with these specs. Would 2.25" depth impair volume and tone too much acoustically I wonder? Sadly I know no-one in the UK who has a Campellone, and I've never played one so it would be sight-unseen, if I ordered one.
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