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A friend say earlier to me today--she was not outing me, just pointing out a friendly observation (from someone who does not play an instrument)-- that in the process of acquiring guitars one fails or forgets to regard them as real money. I've commented on this here before. When I start translating market sale (a snake pit!) value into home repair, upkeep, even a medical bill, it's incredible how much a Gibson archtop sale can cover. Duh! 1.5 archtops=new AC Central unit in S. Florida, as I try to sell the home; ES-335=Epoxy sand and paint in the garage; Stratocaster=new washer and dryer-the list goes on, but nearly covered. I'm not certain how I had the financial means to acquire guitars only 10 years ago. For starters, I was employed, but am now retired. Somehow easy to acquire, but when real money needs start pressing, probably time to unload, often at a steep loss. I've tried to claim or believe that a guitar's genuine value has no relation to real dollars. Guitars are not shoes or an expensive car-they don't necessarily function as material goods but rather as artistic pleasure, literally priceless, unless one is a professional musician, which I am not. All well and good for a time, but when one's rear $$$ flank becomes exposed, look out-time to stop dreaming and get real!
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03-21-2025 02:04 PM
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For me guitars and music are passions and hobbies. I can't compare them to an AC unit.
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They are not always easy to sell though, unless you are willing to take a hit financially. There are dozens of things that are better investments than guitars.
Having said that, I recently sold about half my record collection to a very good new home, partly because I was moving to another city, partly cause I have too much stuff, partly cause I use Spotify and YouTube, and I know there is someone out there who is as passionate with records as I was 20-30 years ago!
Just about covers that Gibson 330 with P90s i was thinking about!
Now if I can find a nice left handed one..
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Being left-handed, I am curious about those left-handed folks who play guitar left-handed because I play right-handed. I learned by watching other guitar players and, since I never tried playing left-handed, it was never an issue for me. I did talk to one other person who plays left-handed and she told me that it was impossible for her to adapt to a right-handed instrument. As I recall Jimi Hendrix and Paul McCartney both were left-handed.
Originally Posted by Alter
They are not always easy to sell though, unless you are willing to take a hit financially. There are dozens of things that are better investments than guitars.
Having said that, I recently sold about half my record collection to a very good new home, partly because I was moving to another city, partly cause I have too much stuff, partly cause I use Spotify and YouTube, and I know there is someone out there who is as passionate with records as I was 20-30 years ago!
Just about covers that Gibson 330 with P90s i was thinking about! Now if I can find a nice left handed one..
From what I understand us left-handers are generally rather ambidextrous. I learned to use right-handed tools such as scissors simply because that was what I had access to. I can certainly say that it is much easier to empty my bank account because I play right-handed.
Edit: If guitars were real money, my Gibson Citation should place me in good stead. Unfortunately, I concur with those who say guitars are generally a poor investment. I am sure I have done much better with stocks and bonds.
Tony
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You are either buying $30,000 Gibsons or don’t understand how much an AC unit costs these days.
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10K. Priced today in S. Florida. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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I have been in Florida in the summer and if I had to live there and an air conditioner system cost $30k, I would pay it. Since I don't have that kind of cash on hand, I don't live there.
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I don't know of anyone down here who is paying 30k for a new AC unit. 45K for a new tile roof is another story. Originally Posted by tbeltrans
I have been in Florida in the summer and if I had to live there and an air conditioner system cost $30k, I would pay it. Since I don't have that kind of cash on hand, I don't live there.
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That’s with installation and labor? Originally Posted by tomvwash
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yes, quoted this morning. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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OTOH, $ spent on home repairs can't compare to the kind of enjoyment per dollar you get when that $ is spent on guitars.
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Well put. I didn't consider the other hobbies or pursuits or recreation that you mentioned. I'm the same--all the rec. is based on music. That is reassuring. Originally Posted by FMDAYS
Last edited by tomvwash; 03-21-2025 at 06:51 PM.
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It was in the Summer of 2023 so about 20 months ago I had to replace my heating and air conditioning system. The house 24 years old and simply need to be done. They worked but need some repairs so naturally option for new better choice. In my case I have dual heating and air conditioning unit. One each for the upstairs and downstairs. In effect had to buy double. It cost. $20,000. My rational was quite easy because it adds to the house if I sell a new HVAC system is one of the best upgrades on a house. In particular where I live housing is scare and I could sell my house probably in hours not more than a few days. It was a need but no brainer decision.
The guitar problem was oh my..... there went my D'angelico Excel a real one. I kept thinking wow I could have just bought one and been playing it for this HVAC system. The real story is the house much easier to sell and going up at least for the moment in value that exceeds D'angelico guitars. I have to rationalize for sure, but truth be known a smart business decision rather than fiddling with old system till it completely breaks down.
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Why the heck was my quote so high!?! Originally Posted by tomvwash
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Y'all … this thread …
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I don't think of my guitars as money, never have. I buy what I want and can afford. I don't think of my car, refrigerator, TV, or groceries as money, they're just things I buy with money, and don't expect to ever get that money back. I have bought exactly one guitar with the intention of selling it for a profit, and that was an exceptional case that just fell into my lap, I didn't go looking for it. I'm not in business.
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The philosopher Confucius said that "Music produces a kind of pleasure which human nature cannot do without." I cannot think of a material purchase that gives back so much joy as a musical instrument. The monetary value of this is not something economists have ever defined. As your mastery of the instrument increases it pays back further dividends. I feel sorry for non musicians as they cannot comprehend this.
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Are you comparing apples to apples? Originally Posted by AllanAllen
- Size of the house: bigger house means a bigger, more expensive unit
- Brand: IDK which brands are cheap vs. expensive, but brand and build quality can definitely impact the bottom line
- Locale: S. Florida is a different market than, for example, California. Everything costs more in the inflated California economy.
- Time of year: This is probably the worst time of year (aside from the height of Summer) to shop for AC. Want a deal? Shop for AC in Winter, heat in Summer.
- Provider: Some people will mark up their product and labor more than others. Get multiple quotes.
- Warranty: A unit with a ten-year warranty (and build quality which makes that sustainable) is going to be more expensive than one that the manufacturer doesn't stand behind.
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This thread reminds me of an epiphany I had a few years ago:
My hobby is recreational road cycling (bicycles). My job...prior to retirement...was professional bass player.
And yet I spent more money on my first good road bicycle than I had on any bass that I owned up to that point.
Plus, in the last 10 years I wound up spending twice as much money on a bass than I had ever spent on a bass prior...but then I also spent three times as much money on a bicycle than I had ever spent on a bicycle prior. (So, for those trying to do the math: I have spent more than 2x on one bicycle -- my hobby -- than the most I ever spent on one bass -- my job.)
So in summary: IT'S NOBODY'S FUCKING BUSINESS WHAT I SPEND MY MONEY ON.
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to me guitars are pretty much like shoes. Originally Posted by tomvwash
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Is the question ethical? Because I always feel guilty when I indulge myself with things that bring me pleasure but are not "essential" for one reason or another.
The problem with hobbies is - at least in my case - that whenever I get really into something I spent money buying multiple similar budget things, perhaps because I avoid buying the one really expensive item to rule them all. Or you can call it GAS, I suppose.
Example: I was seriously into street photography some years back and ended up with a nice collection of film cameras, some really nice and desirable and rare, but I never bought that one Leica M4P I lusted after. In the end, in terms of money, the collective cost of all the cameras I bought over the years might equal that of a Leica M4P.
But would I feel different holding a Leica in my hands? (Indulgence)
Would the pictures be better? (Objective truth)
I see online listings for guitars that stay unsold for a long time. I don't think you can make a profit out of a guitar, unless it had a Gibson logo on.
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Most toys whether we are talking cars, bikes, speedboats, golf clubs etc. depreciate and are not a good investment per se. Just saving money is generally a bad investment as the interest you earn after taxes is usually lower than the inflation rate, which means that your money is shrinking.
Guitars (and not all guitars) and some other musical instruments can actually appreciate, making them among the only toys that do not depreciate. That is lucky for us guitar players if we want to sell our toys at some point. But if you are looking for an actual investment, stocks, bonds, real estate or business opportunities will mostly outperform musical instruments. They are just not as much fun to own.
In the end, remember this: Life is short. Buy the guitar.
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Most of the time I don’t feel guilty indulging my passions and hobbies. I always seem to thin the herd if things go unused. That is when I feel regret if something is not being used. But for many years I survived on just a medium grade classical guitar coming from a piano background. I taught myself a lot on that guitar. If I remember correctly a roommate gave it to me instead of their share of the rent one month. It was worth more than that though. Then I bought a ‘60s era Gibson acoustic. Then a Fender Tele and a Rockman. Cut to 35+ years later and I have about 14 guitars and 4 amps. Over half my guitars are Fender-type assemblies without Fender parts. I could sell all of them and not make enough money to fill my car with gas. TBH, I would sell my car before I sold them. And I need my car, obviously. I use it, but I also use all of my music gear sans a few pedals and few guitar necks.
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For me, music is a hobby. I worked full time in it many years ago as a union sideman and decided the constant touring just wasn't what I wanted out of life, but I was grateful for the opportunity to give it a go. We worked 6 nights a week and traveled to the next gig on Sundays. Many folks my age have never had the experience and now regret it, as too many family responsibilities can make it impractical.
I don't consider myself a jazz guitarist, as that is a whole path of dedication to the music that I respect, where for me it is much more casual and relaxing pastime. All I do anymore is chord melody. I don't memorize other people's arrangements, since making my own is much more enjoyable like solving a puzzle. I bought my 1995 Gibson Citation because it was there and I had the cash. The cash came from an inheritance when my mother died. To be clear, I simply don't borrow money - to buy cars, clothes, etc. I use my credit card, but for convenience rather than as a loan officer - zero balance at the end of every month. I did have a mortgage, but paid it off quite early. I simply don't like to owe money.
When I was growing up, it was the Beatles and similar that attracted me to guitar like many my age (72). I first heard them in 1963 with "Love Me Do". My parents forbid me from learning to play guitar because they felt that pop music was a bad influence, so I didn't really get started with that until I was in the Army. I felt it was fitting that my parents funded such a fine instrument for me in the Citation at the other end of my life. I will readily admit that I would not take it on a gig if I was still doing that. I did some occasional playing out back in the late 1990s and early 2000s. At the time, I had an early 1970s Gibson Johnny Smith. I took it with me a few times, but was always worried that something would happen to it. I bought a lesser expensive archop and used that instead.
If I have any regret about my parents' attitude toward the guitar, it is that years later I discovered that growing up, I lived probably a 15 or 20 minute drive from Ted Greene and could have been taking lessons from him through high school and been much farther ahead as a result.
To me, the archtop is really an art form as well as an instrument. There are archtops suited to the "working musician" (i.e. those who play out regardless of how much they get paid or how often) and then there are those guitars that are just a pleasure to even hold or just look at. I play my Citation - but not during the winter when it stays in its case (the original from Gibson that was made for this guitar) so humidity won't be a problem. For winter months, I have an Emerald carbon fiber Kestrel archtop that stays out all the time.
Tony
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Play your Citation in the winter it is not some delicate thing that you cannot play it year around. Winter, summer, fall, and spring all have an effect on guitars. If the guitar is that fragile then I would not want it around. Take it out and play it, although granted at the neighborhood bar you might not want to, but in the living room. yes. Originally Posted by tbeltrans
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