Slide Guitar Jazz?

[Doug B]

I was listening to Duane Alman and Lowell George and I got to thinking: has any on ever heard of someone who plays jazz slide guitar?

Thanks

Doug

[Jimmy blue note]

Susan Alcorn. Norm Zocher. Dave Tronzo.

[Average Joe]

Does this count as jazz?

and a blues, of course

[docsteve]

A Hawaiian lap steel guitar player was part of many bands in the 20s. I’ve even heard a recording of the Russian jazz band that had a slide guitar player.


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[Doug B]

[QUOTE=Jimmy blue note;1375236]Susan Alcorn. Norm Zocher. Dave Tronzo.
/QUOTE]

One out of three. I meant like David Tronzo-on 6 string guitar. Not steel guitar like they use in country music on a table or lap steel.

[AllanAllen]

Western Swing is jazz.

Brisbane Bop: Western Swing, 1961-64 - Jimmie Rivers and the Cherokees - YouTube

[pamosmusic]

Does this count as jazz?

and a blues, of course

I was going to say Derek trucks.

I think the issue is articulation. So there are phenomenal players like Derek trucks who can absolutely navigate jazz harmony on a slide guitar, but the nature of the instrument (the sliding) makes the sort of articulation and rhythm effect you’d expect from straight ahead bebop kind of jazz almost impossible, I would think.

[SandChannel]

I was going to say Derek trucks.

I think the issue is articulation. So there are phenomenal players like Derek trucks who can absolutely navigate jazz harmony on a slide guitar, but the nature of the instrument (the sliding) makes the sort of articulation and rhythm effect you’d expect from straight ahead bebop kind of jazz almost impossible, I would think.

Maybe, but I kinda think of Derek as the trombone of jazz solos - when he chooses to play jazz.

[SierraTango]

Also Maurice Anderson (RIP).

[Doug B]

Maybe, but I kinda think of Derek as the trombone of jazz solos - when he chooses to play jazz.

Yes, as a former trombone player in high school, I can well see your comparison. Both trombone and slide guitar (and fretless guitar) have imprecise playing of notes. You really have to use your ear to hit the right note and not sound like the cat that got its tail stepped on!

[mr. beaumont]

I've messed with this...its an idea I wouldn't mind pushing further, but there's only so many hours in a day..

[RJVB]

t the nature of the instrument (the sliding) makes the sort of articulation and rhythm effect you’d expect from straight ahead bebop kind of jazz almost impossible, I would think.

I would think that articulation should come mostly from the picking hand.

No idea what this kind of (cave) bob this is but it sounds appropriately ... different:

A little search "Jerry Douglas jazz" also turned up something for the geeks:

[pamosmusic]

I would think that articulation should come mostly from the picking hand.

Well yeah unless you’re slurring in which case it comes from the left hand, and the slide puts you in a box that way.

The trombone analogy is interesting. I feel like there are differences and I’m trying to think of them. More flexibility in the upper partials relative to the static string tunings maybe. I don’t know.

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

Playing blues slide will teach you to conquer the neck in the horizontal dimension and help you get out of the position box mindset.

[pauln]

I've messed with this...its an idea I wouldn't mind pushing further, but there's only so many hours in a day..

That was gorgeous!

[RJVB]

Well yeah unless you’re slurring in which case it comes from the left hand, and the slide puts you in a box that way.

Well, doh, I think the whole point of using a slide is that it redefines the left-hand technique completely. It is indeed very much like a trombone (except you could "slam" the strings against the frets with your slide), but not as extreme as a theremin.

In fact, more like a piston valve trombone, almost literally if you put the slide on your pinky (3 fingers vs. 3 valves)

[pamosmusic]

Well, doh, I think the whole point of using a slide is that it redefines the left-hand technique completely. It is indeed very much like a trombone (except you could "slam" the strings against the frets with your slide), but not as extreme as a theremin.

In fact, more like a piston valve trombone, almost literally if you put the slide on your pinky (3 fingers vs. 3 valves)

Fingers to valves doesn’t make any sense.

[RJVB]

I think it does, as a means to play discrete notes (as far as those are possible on a wind instrument)

[pamosmusic]

I think it does, as a means to play discrete notes (as far as those are possible on a wind instrument)

On a single valve combination or slide position you have several possible notes depending on the embouchure and air speed … so like the open position, a trumpet is getting C G C E etc through the overtone series. Trombone first position that’s Bb F Bb D … so I assume that’s probably the same for open on a valve trombone? Not sure, but it would work the same way regardless of what the fundamental is.

So maybe the slide position or valve analogy works with a slide because you put the slide on one fret and have access to a handful of notes. But higher up in the overtone series, the notes can be quite close together so a skilled trumpet player or trombone player will be pretty nimble up there.

[RJVB]

I wasn't claiming it's a perfect analogy, just a better one than a "plain" trombone.

If you've watched slide guitar players you know that
1- they always use their fingers (to mute the "wrong" part of the string)
2- they don't always use the slide (and that's probably more true when they're not playing some open tuning)

[pamosmusic]

I wasn't claiming it's a perfect analogy, just a better one than a "plain" trombone.

If you've watched slide guitar players you know that
1- they always use their fingers (to mute the "wrong" part of the string)
2- they don't always use the slide (and that's probably more true when they're not playing some open tuning)

well I guess I’d say if you’ve watched a valve brass instrument you’d know they don’t work like that at all?

This is a weird conversation. I take it all back.

[RJVB]

Well, they're weird instruments.

The brass instruments I've watched up close didn't have any valves at all, but one had a sliding pavilion and a number were made of wood (and had holes).

All I see if I watch people play them is fluttering fingers (with an apparent causal relationship to what I'm hearing), which is basically what I see too when I watch guitarists play