(At least) three major guitar magazines are calling it quits

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

Like so many other discussions here, this thread and the one on the shutdown of Guitar Techniques are more revealing than their OPs expected. Both start with a post lamenting the loss of a valuable resource. After a few similar posts, it forks into “good” and “bad” opinion subthreads.

Many of us (myself included) brought the perspective of those who benefitted greatly and will miss what was lost. We got knowledge, insight, and a lot of pleasure from those mags. They helped us develop as guitarists, musicians, and members of our musical community. No one claimed they were morally superior paragons of business virtue. We were just talking about our own personal experiences, which were good memories for us. This glass is more than half full.

But after a few posts, someone drags the discussion to the path less traveled and paints the same thing as an evil horror to which we should all bid good riddance. At best, this glass is half empty. Interestingly enough, the “bad” line doesn’t seem to recognize any value at all in the subject in focus and paints it to be 100% horrible and worthy of extinction.

Those who follow the “good” fork most often acknowledge that it wasn’t all good. But the “bad” forkers never see beyond some self-perceived insult to themselves, their judgment, their beliefs, etc. So they devolve into profanity, insults, and an us-versus-them stance.

Very little in the real world is purely good or purely bad. It would be great if we could all acknowledge and fight the bad while still enjoying and promoting the good. But once you call someone scum and express great joy at their bad fortune, you kinda lose yourself in the hate and forfeit any chance you had to make things better. Of course, this assumes that you want to make things better.

I was talking about personal experience as a writer. And how I took consequences. Very Personal.

And I always stress how strange it is that a book called "Fifty Shades Of Grey" became a zillion seller but the world is sold to us as black and white. You are either pro-Palestine or pro-Israel etc. etc. I am not like that. I like to look at things from different perspectives to get a 3D image and not a two-dimensional black-and-white photocopy. And that was also why I defended DawgBone although there might be many topics where we disagree. But i could imagine to sit down with him with and have a drink and talk about things. Because I have the feeling he has a heart. And because I think it's important to put up with unpleasant opinions and deal with them seriously. Even things that reveal to you what may have gone wrong with you so far. These things are the only chance for change. And I think the world needs a transformation. I'm fed up with this shit, where the financial economy outstrips the real economy many times over. Where Sun Tzu's “Art of War” and the Prussian General Carl von Clausewitz are managerial literature. Where hypocritical talk is made of Western or Christian-Jewish values while billions are made with weapons and people die of hunger. Basta Ya.

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

I was talking about personal experience as a writer. And how I took consequences. Very Personal.

And I always stress how strange it is that a book called "Fifty Shades Of Grey" became a zillion seller but the world is sold to us as black and white. You are either pro-Palestine or pro-Israel etc. etc. I am not like that. I like to look at things from different perspectives to get a 3D image and not a two-dimensional black-and-white photocopy. And that was also why I defended DawgBone although there might be many topics where we disagree. But i could imagine to sit down with him with and have a drink and talk about things. Because I have the feeling he has a heart. And because I think it's important to put up with unpleasant opinions and deal with them seriously. Even things that reveal to you what may have gone wrong with you so far. These things are the only chance for change. And I think the world needs a transformation. I'm fed up with this shit, where the financial economy outstrips the real economy many times over. Where Sun Tzu's “Art of War” and the Prussian General Carl von Clausewitz are managerial literature. Where hypocritical talk is made of Western or Christian-Jewish values while billions are made with weapons and people die of hunger. Basta Ya.

BTW I put a lot of dough into Guitar Player, Keyboard, EQ magazine, Gitarre & Bass (German), Keyboards (German), etc. etc. etc. I learned a lot.

But I was happy to find out that I could get a lot of information in the www for free. An imported Guitar Player mag was 25 DM which was a lot of money for me then.

And working for a magazine was very revealing for me as described above. And there was another thing. The publisher IIRC is still publishing more than one mag on war planes. But in the event tech mag, the musicians mag and in the studio and keyboard mag it was forbidden to use military language. The German colloquial term for a guitar pedal is “Tretmine” -- anti-personnel landmine. Forbidden to use that term. Which I consider highly hypocritical. (I made fun of sneaking in terms, for example I met a lighting technician for a (free) interview in a "wagon fort made of tourbuses" LOL. Which my What my editor-in-chief overlooked haha. I guess he liked me anyway more than his boss.)

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Of course I know that there are things that have become naturalized and are difficult to overcome, but I think it is absolutely legitimate to question the conventions, as DawgBone does here.

No question about it - I agree with you 100%. Questioning is good and healthy. The only reason those with extreme views have for avoiding discussion is a lack of evidence that the truth isn’t somewhere between those extremes. But it’s not a discussion when the only thing one side adds is his or her own conclusion.

It’s the all-or-nothing dismissal of other points of view (GP and the value it brought to so many of us, in this case) as scum devoid of any merit that makes me bristle.

[Doctor Jeff]

This arrangement is not exclusive to musicians, or even print media. If George Clooney is interviewed on a talk show, he's not being paid, he's promoting his latest movie. Likewise the coach appearing on morning radio to talk about his team's performance the day before is doing it for free, because I guess it's expected by the fans.

Actually, I think it's kind of complicated with top artists like actors.

As I understand, most print interviews are not paid. Most talk show appearances are not paid, with the exception that certain union rules require all persons in the broadcast to get paid a nominal amount, i.e., several hundred dollars. Got this from the internet: "SAG-AFTRA members (so pretty much every TV/Film actor) are paid $537 as interviewees unless they are being interviewed for a humanitarian cause or a 'topic of special concern to the star performer'. Professional athletes being interviewed in connection with their athletic endeavours are also exempt from payment."

Now the publicists for some artists on a publicity tour might insist on payment for some appearance. They might be successful if it's a very exclusive interview.

But musicians? I think the chance ANY guitarist could get money for an interview is close to zero, unless perhaps Jimi Hendrix came back from the dead. I doubt if even famous singers ever got paid for their interviews.

Some current artists are pretty interview-phobic, so some outlet (People, for instance) might be willing to pay for the privilege of interviewing Adele or Beyonce or Taylor Swift.

[DawgBone]

BTW I put a lot of dough into Guitar Player, Keyboard, EQ magazine, Gitarre & Bass (German), Keyboards (German), etc. etc. etc. I learned a lot.

But I was happy to find out that I could get a lot of information in the www for free. An imported Guitar Player mag was 25 DM which was a lot of money for me then.

And working for a magazine was very revealing for me as described above. And there was another thing. The publisher IIRC is still publishing more than one mag on war planes. But in the event tech mag, the musicians mag and in the studio and keyboard mag it was forbidden to use military language. The German colloquial term for a guitar pedal is “Tretmine” -- anti-personnel landmine. Forbidden to use that term. Which I consider highly hypocritical. (I made fun of sneaking in terms, for example I met a lighting technician for a (free) interview in a "wagon fort made of tourbuses" LOL. Which my What my editor-in-chief overlooked haha. I guess he liked me anyway more than his boss.)

I sunk a lot of cash into those magazines also. I guess at the time it might not have mattered to me but once I got out in the gigging world where venues constantly want something for nothing the "good exposure" stuff is like a slap in the face. There are agents here that do the pay to play game, double dipping by shaking desperate artists down for cash while charging the clubs who are paying them to book artists. I just see it all as scab behavior because it's non-talented people making a living on the backs of the talented and not paying them for their work either. If I had realized the musician is lower on the totem pole than the bar back or the dude who mops the clubs bathrooms, and should expect to be treated that way as a matter of routine, I probably would have chosen a different career path.

[Oscar67]

…the world is sold to us as black and white … I am not like that. I like to look at things from different perspectives to get a 3D image and not a two-dimensional black-and-white photocopy … I could imagine to sit down with him with and have a drink and talk about things. Because I have the feeling he has a heart. And because I think it's important to put up with unpleasant opinions and deal with them seriously. These things are the only chance for change.

Thank you for sharing this. Heartfelt and hitting the nail on the head. World needs more of this.

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

Thank you Oscar67 for your encouraging words.

I'm getting a lot of backlash at the moment from people who obviously don't like the fact that I'm breaking away from the conventional divide-and-conquer approach and say aloud what I think in public.

People stand very close to me when I'm playing street music and grin at me. This morning I had an email in my inbox where a video link had apparently been swapped because I can't imagine that the friend who sent me the email watches videos like that and accidentally sent me the wrong link.

Apparently at least one of our accounts has been hacked.

IMO, this video is by no means as documentary as it pretends to be and it is alarming that there are apparently quite a lot of people who produce such videos if you look at what else youtube offers you.

Hence my message to Sauron's minions: Go back to your stinking holes in the shadows. I will not be threatened.

I am not coming from a family of cowards. My great aunt was a Righteous Among the Nations. My great uncle stands on the same memorial stone in the former Flossenbürg concentration camp with Bonhoeffer and Canaris because he worked with Stauffenberg. My father's father was a Ludendorff supporter and a real anti-Semite, but he was threatened with being sent to Dachau if he continued to discuss with communists at his home. My mother's father deserted from Crimea because he could not stand the mass shootings of Jews.

I am not afraid to die. When I go, I go with a clear conscience and a pure heart.
Because I did what my heart and my conscience told me.

You will not be able to do that. How much alcohol and drugs do you actually have to pour into yourself to do this job?

I told already my girl-friend and my mother that if something bad happens to me that they should let no one tell them it was a suicide. Never in my life have I enjoyed life more than now. Today I will tell the same my boss and my siblings.

Raise your visors as befits a knight in a tournament or go FCK yourself and get off my cloud.

Sorry to the OP for getting really off-topic this time but I had to say this publicly.

[ruger9]

An important part of Western democracy is the press holding politicians accountable via interviews and investigative journalism..

That's the way it's supposed to be...LOL

But guitar magazines aren't "the press", they don't require investigative journalism, it's really just interviews and reviews. Hopefully honest reviews...

[CliffR]

But guitar magazines aren't "the press", they don't require investigative journalism, it's really just interviews and reviews. Hopefully honest reviews...

Fair point.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I'm getting a lot of backlash at the moment from people who obviously don't like the fact that I'm breaking away from the conventional divide-and-conquer approach and say aloud what I think in public.

I’m truly sorry if you think I’m among them - I am not. As I said in my response to your earlier post, discussion is fine and openness to other opinions is mandatory if any discussion is to be had and any progress made,

My point was that so many discussions start out with positive comments about a topic and sooner or later develop a small group of angry detractors who contribute nothing but invective and even hatred into what started as someone’s joyful experience and/or reminiscence and regret at its loss. Summarily dismissing the source of that joy as worthless scum adds nothing to the discussion and is a slap in the face to those who feel otherwise.

I’m really sorry you’ve had trouble and I hope it stops. I appreciate your being here.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I sunk a lot of cash into those magazines also. I guess at the time it might not have mattered to me but once I got out in the gigging world where venues constantly want something for nothing the "good exposure" stuff is like a slap in the face.

I gather you don’t think you learned anything useful or got any joy from reading them. So why did you sink your cash into them?

If I had realized the musician is lower on the totem pole than the bar back or the dude who mops the clubs bathrooms, and should expect to be treated that way as a matter of routine, I probably would have chosen a different career path.

So much for dedication to your art.

[DawgBone]

I gather you don’t think you learned anything useful or got any joy from reading them. So why did you sink your cash into them?


So much for dedication to your art.

Well, that was a classless remark.

[John A.]

This news only surprises me because I thought GP shut down their print edition along time ago. I haven't seen it in years on a newsstand, and when I did last see it it was a shadow of its former self (which had been the case for years up to that point). The website now is completely lame (all content is lightly edited PR copy from MFR's and artists), but maybe now that it's the sole focus it'll improve.

My favorite music magazines were Musician: Player and Listener (long gone), GP, and Recording (online only, and also greatly diluted). What they all had in common was excellent writing, and eclectic music reviews. All three turned me on to music I probably wouldn't have found otherwise, but that ship sailed a long time ago.

[wintermoon]

Well, that was a classless remark.

Hah, I almost spit my coffee out and I haven't had it yet.

[supersoul]

Tape Op is a magazine that is still good. It's also free, either online or a print copy. You just have to sign up with an email. This month they have interviews with John Wood, Joe Boyd, the RZA, and a bunch of others, most of whom are pretty obscure. The interviews are real interviews, about recording geekery

[John A.]

Yes, I get it. But I'm still glad to see a bunch of gatekeepers who demanded freebies from musicians going belly up. If I had known that then I wouldn't have bought a single issue because I don't support "exposure" gigs or pay to play stuff in any form. Grifters.

"Major" artists are in fact often paid for press and promotional appearances (as part of their contracts with record companies and/or venues, not by the media). Indies and less known people do it as a form of free advertising for themselves. The idea that magazines are somehow ripping off artists by interviewing them is ridiculous. It is nothing like the phenomenon of getting people to donate performance services in exchange for "exposure" (which absolutely is a rip-off).

[Jimmy blue note]

Tape Op is a magazine that is still good. It's also free, either online or a print copy. You just have to sign up with an email. This month they have interviews with John Wood, Joe Boyd, the RZA, and a bunch of others, most of whom are pretty obscure. The interviews are real interviews, about recording geekery

That magazine is the ideal of good in-depth informed interviews conducted with some of the most important people you've never heard of. Too bad there's not a Guitar version of that.
It's about recording engineering, technical, anecdotal and very laid back but rigourous interview style by well informed interviewers that did their homework.
I don't know how they do it but I pray they'll keep doing what they do.

And gear talk galore, if you're an old school and unschooled recording engineer. I have a wall of back issues. It's a library of priceless analog recording wealth.

[John A.]

That's the way it's supposed to be...LOL

But guitar magazines aren't "the press", they don't require investigative journalism, it's really just interviews and reviews. Hopefully honest reviews...

Some of them used to be much more than that. E.g., Guitar Player used to do fairly wide-ranging interviews and articles where artists would get into subjects quite far from just promoting themselves, and they would do less than complimentary reviews of gear. Granted, there's less at stake in a typical musician interview than a true news article, but the minute you pay a source, the source's credibility is tempered. Now, GP doesn't even interview people or review gear; the just regurgitate promotional material. So there's no point in even discussing their journalistic ethics anymore.

[jameslovestal]

No question about it - I agree with you 100%. Questioning is good and healthy. The only reason those with extreme views have for avoiding discussion is a lack of evidence that the truth isn’t somewhere between those extremes. But it’s not a discussion when the only thing one side adds is his or her own conclusion.

It’s the all-or-nothing dismissal of other points of view (GP and the value it brought to so many of us, in this case) as scum devoid of any merit that makes me bristle.

Some people assume everyone is as bitter as they are.

[RLetson]

One of the final stages in the death of a magazine is substituting PR/marketing material for actual journalism. I witnessed it in the last biz-tech magazine I wrote for when the magazine (along with its various sibling titles) was acquired by a really big media corporation. They fired all the office people except the head editor and turned the book into a website that mostly posted "columns" by "consultants" (actually, I suspect, marketing/PR guys). No more actually-researched stories, just marketing stuff. The editor (who was a good editor and a good guy) was reduced to a name on a virtual masthead. Eventually, even the website vanished--maybe the acquirers were acquired or engulfed & devoured. It's a jungle out there.

Since then it's been the blogification and YouTube-ization of what used to be a space occupied by at least some practitioners qualified as content/research/writing people.

There should be no need for me to repeat what I've already posted about the role of the interview or profile in what we might call the cultural-information space. People are curious about artists in general, and amateur musicians are quite curious about their heroes. Artists are not averse to being noticed, for personal as well as business reasons. The magazine (or now the website or blog or podcast) is the instrument that satisfies both sides of that equation.

And some artists either don't need the attention or are wary of it and demur. When I got to interview Leo Kottke, he was hardly in need of the publicity--in fact, I had the impression that he didn't enjoy interviews all that much. But he did have a new record coming out, and while he wouldn't give my editor his phone number, he called me and we had a really pleasant, social-feeling 90-minute conversation, just a couple of Minnesota guitar nerds. (FWIW, the result was "One Guitar, No Borders," the December 1999 cover story for Acoustic Guitar.)

Did that make me or the AG editor a gatekeeper or Leo an exploited artist?

[DawgBone]

Some people assume everyone is as bitter as they are.

Other people just don't work for free.

[jameslovestal]

Other people just don't work for free.

So much for dedication to your art.

[DawgBone]

So much for dedication to your art.

Take your cheap shots. You don't know me or what my level of dedication has been.

[yebdox]

I wholeheartedly agree! If we had today’s resources back then, we’d have known a lot more a lot sooner. But to be honest, I think the fact that we had to work so hard to find and absorb information also had great value.

The intensity of the chase was an enduring part of the passion. I doubt that I’d remember so many things in so much detail if I didn’t have to choose so carefully, search so hard, and wait so long for everything - information, recordings, live appearances, newly introduced guitars / amps / gear etc.

The choice you offer (magazines vs the internet) isn’t as simple to make as it seems. I do agree that as an isolated choice, the web wins for me. We can find obscure facts, correct our faulty memories, look at images we never would have known exist, hear music we never would have been able to access, etc. But there were some advantages to “the good old days” that I’d still prefer, and in aggregate a choice between then and now wouldn’t be quite so easy.

When I was in high school, I could go to any of three local music stores and play at least a few models of Gibson, Martin, Fender, Guild etc - and archtops were well represented. If I went to any of several shops in the nearest big city, I could play most models from most makers. Even better, used ones were available at appropriate prices - I got a used 345 in early 1960 and traded it for a used 175 less than a year later.

The other advantage of print media was that it was generally more accurate and reliable than the endless unvalidated drivel on the internet. There was a general level of integrity among those who wrote what we read that’s almost gone now. Even radio DJs brought an intellectualism and depth to their commentary that’s gone now. Anyone who remembers Ed Beech and Sid Mark knows what I mean. I learned more useful and factual information as a kid from radio jazz shows than you can get from most Internet forums, blogs, etc today.

Don’t forget liner notes, many of which were written by journalists whose books and magazine articles we also loved. Think of all we learned about music by reading album jackets and sleeves. Losing print magazines, album notes, instrument catalogs etc etc is not the end of the world, and modern media can bring all of that content to us much faster, easier, and cheaper than ever before. But we now have to sift through a million times more unvalidated and often erroneous nonsense to find the kind and quality of information that used to be the bulk of our resource base.

I love living in the 21st century! But the overall quality and utility of available information has dropped in inverse proportion to the amount and availability of it all. So we still have to work hard to find information we can trust, enjoy, and use. We used to have to work hard to find any information, but what we found was mostly beneficial to us. Now we have to work hard to find good information among mountains of foolish self serving crap.

Yes, I said that working hard for knowledge and experience made it that much more precious. But that was good and positive work that was also fun. Digging gold flakes out of bovine excrement is not - the smell alone overpowers any sense of elated discovery. Nevertheless, the more things change…..

Tip of the hat... thoughtful and well written! (Just coming in on this post before reading to the end... treading lightly now!).

In spite of the strong emotions in this thread, it's still very clear that our lives would be very different and much less satisfying if someone had not given more than they received in return for their efforts to bring music into the world. For that, I'm grateful. How much could we ever pay to compensate for the beauty of one chorus of a Wes solo, for example?

He was compelled to bring that music forth, regardless of the cost and deserved to be a millionaire several times over, but much of the good and beauty in the world has been and continues to be produced by those who are driven by a higher purpose. Thank God for those who have made the effort, in spite of low compensation. It doesn't make it right, but it does make it beautiful, nonetheless. Thanks to everyone here for standing for their principles. At the end of the day, the world only keeps moving forward through the efforts of principled souls.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

In spite of the strong emotions in this thread, it's still very clear that our lives would be very different and much less satisfying if someone had not given more than they received in return for their efforts to bring music into the world. For that, I'm grateful. How much could we ever pay to compensate for the beauty of one chorus of a Wes solo, for example?

He was compelled to bring that music forth, regardless of the cost and deserved to be a millionaire several times over, but much of the good and beauty in the world has been and continues to be produced by those who are driven by a higher purpose. Thank God for those who have made the effort, in spite of low compensation. It doesn't make it right, but it does make it beautiful, nonetheless. Thanks to everyone here for standing for their principles. At the end of the day, the world only keeps moving forward through the efforts of principled souls.

Beautiful thoughts. Thanks!!

Michael Hill is one of my favorite blues composers, players, and singers. His lyrics are pure poetry, and some of his writing could be the subject of multiple PhD theses. My favorite line of his is this: “Maybe someday our heroes will get paid while they’re alive.”