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Originally Posted by christianm77
I've heard about several good musicians (Mulgrew Miller is one) that never transcribed but They played in the style of the target musician. I think this is more interesting than repeating verbatim lines.
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08-22-2020 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by sjl
Transcription is a very confusing term. Many people seem to think this means working out whole solos or even writing them down (which some have done); but for many others it’s a much more ad hoc process of listening hard, stealing bits and pieces as you go, and learning how to play by ear.
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Originally Posted by sjl
(Although solfege can be a bit dogmatic itself. May be useful at the early stages. After a while you may not need it anymore... Good sight singers don’t actually use it, because they have to song words lol.)
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Originally Posted by sjl
For some people. the discipline of nailing something exactly, especially when moving out of one's area of comfort or control, is a good thing. If I'd just tried to "get the idea" of Raney's lines, I would have colonized his ideas with my lame scale fragments and licks. Playing 64 bars of Raney's "Just Friends" until I could play it quickly and confidently taught me more about bebop than my previous 30 years struggling to learn jazz. Of course, part of the power was that I had 30 years of study and effort, even if it was rather modest in its yield. But when I started learning those solos, for some reason things really began to make sense.
Most importantly, it was humbling. Without putting myself down or being falsely self-effacing, after playing Raney's stuff, I realized my problem was in my head, not my hands. He has brilliant musical ideas. I don't. He has no impediment in expressing his ideas on the guitar. I do.
So I have begun re-thinking my approach, and those 7 or 8 written-out solos I learned--which I can still play!--were a powerful learning experience for me. And it was the demand to get them note-perfect, not to cheat, that drove the whole thing.
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Originally Posted by lawson-stone
We all have different goals. As far as ear training goes, did that, didn't like it. Now my ear training comes mostly from learning tunes, writing tunes, recording tunes.
My biggest enjoyment is in writing and recording my own music. Everything else pales in comparison. I'll still work on learning as long as the deferred gratification isn't too deferred, I'm getting older.
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Originally Posted by lawson-stone
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Originally Posted by pauln
So for me, the ideal is a written transcription combined with the performance from which it was taken. Then I can move between reading and capturing things by ear. The written notation helps me with the notes, the recording helps me with the phrasing.
I'm still a very unimpressive player-improvisor, though, so don't take this as a "pro tip." It's not.
Sometimes we can't listen until we are clear about what we are listening for.Last edited by lawson-stone; 08-24-2020 at 10:54 AM.
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That last sentence is the number one reason why I would suggest using other people’s music.
If you already know what you are hearing and can hear it clearly, it becomes less important (but still fun and often useful.)
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I haven't been at jazzguitar.be for a while and I just saw this post.
Here's my take:
Many of us (including me) try out many kinds of approaches for ear training. That we get a bit too deep, over-analyze, and start exploring esoteric "out of the ether" type of stuff and going around in circles in a maze - when we should focus on training in one particular way (subdivided to a few units of concentrated exercises) and using a particular tool that improves skill and increase learning velocity - and for godsakes just complete what you have started.
Once you complete your ear training program, and didn't see any results - then that's the time to try out something else. But not until then. Ear Training is life-long learning.
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Originally Posted by Jason Sioco
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Well I had a girlfriend with perfect pitch, and that assumption that she could hear everything used to annoy and upset her. And she could compose straight to score.
Naive approaches to ear training misunderstand how we hear - as Edwin Gordon points out we hear not in individual notes but in shapes, phrases, chords and other gestalts; the equivalent of words and sentences in a language. Training your ability to name individual notes can be useful (especially for dictation) but the main event is being able to hear musical 'language.'
For me it works like this - I hear a phrase and I can sort of see how it goes on the fretboard. It has nothing to do with 'knowing' what the pitches are.
But I have to hear the phrase - that's often the hard bit. At least for me. Especially if it's something unfamiliar to me.
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Pedagogy, beyond beginning-intermediate stages, is a small element in a musician's ability to play and improvise. The best training is to play live with other musicians. You will develop tonal memory, phrasing, improvisation, and technique at a very high rate as opposed to the "bedroom/Youtube artist." It is certainly a temptation with the incredible amount of materials available today to aspiring musicians to avail themselves of these learning "aids." But, there is no substitute for performing live. My generation of working musicians certainly knew the fundamentals of music but much of our education was "on the job." And, the amount of musical epiphanies we had while playing was both magical and frightening in the respect that you didn't know how they happened but they, nonetheless, became part of your musical personality.
I was playing Coltrane's album "My Favorite Things" last night and what impressed me most after 50 years of listening to the music was that Coltrane's sound and ideas were not rehashed, remade, and predictable but rather unique to him. He certainly did his homework and knew his scales, chords, inversions, etc. but what made his music special, and others like him, was that his voice was organic and unique and his ability to play with others of his ilk(McCoy Tyner, Elvin Jones, Steve Davis) was a major factor in his growth. Throughout the album, there was a remarkable interplay between Coltrane and Davis(Bass) that was interesting and unusual since sax players normally follow the pianist in musical interplays and there were some truly magical moments. It's this musical give and take and openness to interacting with other players that, in my opinion, creates the greatest musical growth.
Sadly, today, we are hampered by the cloud of CV where virtual playing is the only option. However, last night at the Republican convention, I saw live musicians wearing no masks and performing for the audience. Perhaps there is a light of hope in the near future. I ,for one, want to get back to live performing. Play live . . . Marinero
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The ocean... reminds me of a movie I have yet to watch, but I've heard the song.
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Originally Posted by Gabor
Just because I can identify the colors, doesn't mean I can walk up and paint the Sistine Chapel. I assume absolute pitch would be a similar experience.
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