Help with Big Band guitar charts with chord hits

[hotpepper01]

Startting with bigband guitar is tough. First keep in mind that you are playing rythm in the first place. Hitting the strings at the right moment is more important than playing the right chord.
When starting you have to read the music. That means knowing where the rest of the band is. Next you have to know what the chord looks like on your fretboard. That alone is tough enough. And then you have to play the chords at the right time.
What helped me a lot is learning to okay shell chords, ie 3 note chord, mostly played on strings 3,4 and 6. At a certain point you will start getting some confidence. Playing along backing tracks (Band in a box) or You tube tracks helps a lot. Start with two songs that your band plays.
Practice, practice, practise and keep having fun ! You will get there if you want it!

[sgcim]

I'm curious, what's the modern charts, or modern big band sounds like? If you don't use FG style, how do you play? Is the guitar and gear and setups different?

My fave modern big bands are bands like Rob McConnell's Boss Brass (featuring Ed Bickert on guitar), Gordon Goodwin's Big Phat Band (featuring Grant Geissman on guitar), the Bob Mintzer Big band, and various other ensembles that play arr. by writers like Pat Williams, Frank Mantooth, Clare Fischer, Phil Woods, Mike Tomaro, Les Hooper, and others.

The guitar parts use the guitar as another horn, playing lines with the trombones, trumpets, piano, bass, and most difficultly, the saxophones. For the chords, there are a lot of hits with the piano, and the horns.

On the solos, you have to be able to comp with the pianist, in a bop style, following his hits. Sometimes this requires ESP...
You can use an electric hollow body, even for the rock/funk charts, because EVH and AH solos don't really fit in in that style.
I just got in a great band that plays only modern big band stuff, and the rehearsals are like concerts; no one screws up (except me!).
I play in another one that also plays mostly modern stuff, and there are train wrecks galore. The players are okay, but not super-human mutants like the other band.

I also gig in another big band that plays no modern things- just dance things and vocal features. I do the FG thing, and then crank up for solos.

[rpjazzguitar]

I sub occasionally in big band that plays all older charts, meaning 50s and 60s, on the original paper.

The guitar plays almost entirely chords. It isn't all Freddie Green. It seems to me that FG works perfectly with certain swing grooves, but not perfectly for others.

I play in a band that plays a mix of older and newer charts, with the oldest being from the 60's. The guitar is sometimes voiced with the horns, but doesn't usually have its own part.

But, with the more recent charts, the guitar sometimes plays single note lines that nobody else is playing.

As if it took decades for arrangers to recognize guitar as equal in potential power to the horns.

This probably tracked the development of the electric guitar, with increasing volume, sustain and tonal richness.

[Mark M.]

I play in an octet which started out as follows. A saxophonist bought the charts from Oliver Nelson's Blues and the Abstract Truth, which were arranged for an octet.

He found a place to play and made some calls. It wasn't difficult to get it going. It took some work to keep it going - mostly in getting subs on short notice when somebody had to cancel.

Eventually, we had 4 chairs of regulars and 4 which platooned two players each. That's worked pretty well.

After we did the Oliver Nelson album, the leader got charts from other sources and wrote some of his own arrangements. Several other players contributed material as well. Somebody had access to a school music program's files which included some usable charts. The saxophonist rewrote some to make them fit our instrumentation.

One of the bands I sub in got its charts from a college music program that decided to eliminate big band music and were about to throw away boxes and boxes of charts. A former student found out and got them all.

Another band was started by a well known arranger and plays his charts.

I was somewhat surprised when I realized just how many big bands there are in the area. These are bands that rehearse a lot more than they gig -- and include a lot of pro players. Eventually, I started seeing the same players in different bands and realized that it was a community of people doing this stuff.

It can be a very cool thing.

Interestingly, although there are a great many skilled guitarists around here, there are precious few with the ability to read this stuff.

I think that a very good way to get involved would be to contact a bandleader and offer to sub. if your reading isn't good enough, try to improve the odds by asking to get the charts (and recordings if possible) in advance and prepare. If you can at least make recordings and take pictures of the charts for practice, you'll probably get better really quickly.

I had a similar experience. A friend and guitar duo partner of mine held the guitar chair in an excellent local big band for 10+ years and when he moved out of state I took his place. The band plays every Tuesday night at a local pizza restaurant, and it has been a great experience for me. It has taught me a lot about sight reading and musicianship. Mostly, it taught me to listen and adapt the charts as mentioned previously in this thread - simplify chords omitting most extensions, playing hits as I became more familiar with the tunes, etc. After awhile, I was able to start doubling some of the lines with the horn section when it was indicated in the arrangement. It was a lot of work for me and required a lot of practice time with the charts, but it has been invaluable to my music education.

[Woody Sound]

I'm curious, what's the modern charts, or modern big band sounds like? If you don't use FG style, how do you play? Is the guitar and gear and setups different?

[Hep To The Jive]

My fave modern big bands are bands like Rob McConnell's Boss Brass (featuring Ed Bickert on guitar), Gordon Goodwin's Big Phat Band (featuring Grant Geissman on guitar), the Bob Mintzer Big band, and various other ensembles that play arr. by writers like Pat Williams, Frank Mantooth, Clare Fischer, Phil Woods, Mike Tomaro, Les Hooper, and others.

The guitar parts use the guitar as another horn, playing lines with the trombones, trumpets, piano, bass, and most difficultly, the saxophones. For the chords, there are a lot of hits with the piano, and the horns.

On the solos, you have to be able to comp with the pianist, in a bop style, following his hits. Sometimes this requires ESP...
You can use an electric hollow body, even for the rock/funk charts, because EVH and AH solos don't really fit in in that style.
I just got in a great band that plays only modern big band stuff, and the rehearsals are like concerts; no one screws up (except me!).
I play in another one that also plays mostly modern stuff, and there are train wrecks galore. The players are okay, but not super-human mutants like the other band.

I also gig in another big band that plays no modern things- just dance things and vocal features. I do the FG thing, and then crank up for solos.

Thanks man! Now I understand.

[sgcim]

, Thad used guitar in the band, but when TJ passed, they cut it out.

The music changed when Thad died; it's become more 'eye' oriented than 'ear' oriented.

[JGinNJ]

All of RP's suggestions are great, but the main thing is to put all that to work by joining a rehearsal band.
It's not like reading a classical guitar piece, because you've got to hook up with the rhythm section, not just play the notes. I play in one rehearsal band that has thousands of charts, so I'm exposed to so much of this type of writing that I can sightread charts like 'Tramp' without thinking about it. You should try to sight-sing the rhythms before you play it. Most of the hits are on the 'ands'.
I've read people on this forum say that they'd never join a rehearsal band, because they're not getting paid to play. That might be true, but it's the only way you can get experience fitting in with a rhythm section in a big band. You also wind up getting more gigs, because you meet musicians other than guitarists.
On top of that, you learn tons of new ideas from playing the music of great composer/arrangers, and then hearing how other musicians improvise on the same tunes you're improvising on.

Rehearsal bands are a jazz tradition.

^ This. I started playing with a rehearsal band last year. I play trumpet, also, and most of the time I play that. But I fill in for the guitar player sometimes. Most of the charts are 4-to-the-bar, but sightreading skills hepls me get through the parts that aren't. The 6's, 9's, 13's, etc. I fit in where it makes sense or is comfortable. Playing with a big band has been a real reminder that guitar is a rhythm section instrument- and a primarily solo player, has improved my time.

[sgcim]

^ This. I started playing with a rehearsal band last year. I play trumpet, also, and most of the time I play that. But I fill in for the guitar player sometimes. Most of the charts are 4-to-the-bar, but sightreading skills hepls me get through the parts that aren't. The 6's, 9's, 13's, etc. I fit in where it makes sense or is comfortable. Playing with a big band has been a real reminder that guitar is a rhythm section instrument- and a primarily solo player, has improved my time.

That's great that you're skilled enough on two instruments to be able to cut the parts in the band.

On charts with difficult lines like Gordon Goodwin's 'Swingin' For the Fence' (above 300bpm), do you find it easier to sight read single note lines on trumpet or guitar?
What's the difference between the two instruments in situations like that?
Thanks!

[JGinNJ]

We don't play anything that fast!

The short answer is, there's (mostly) only one fingering for a note on trumpet, so sight reading lines is easier unless it's upper register (above the staff). On guitar, especially for faster stuff, it helps to figure out what position to play it in. Just playing chords is easier, though.

[sgcim]

We don't play anything that fast!

The short answer is, there's (mostly) only one fingering for a note on trumpet, so sight reading lines is easier unless it's upper register (above the staff). On guitar, especially for faster stuff, it helps to figure out what position to play it in. Just playing chords is easier, though.

Thanks for the reply! Now I know what to tell this trumpet player who dropped a chart with 32nd notes on my stand, and expected me to sight read it at a medium tempo!