The Jazz Transcription Thread

**mr. beaumont** · 05-23-2016, 12:01 PM

I think a big part of it is admitting the influence and not trying to "hide" it, or something.

That's a big step in actually becoming who you are. I finally let it go about a year or two ago, and I feel like I'm finally starting to sound like me. It's funny how it almost works in it's own reverse...

**PaulD** · 05-23-2016, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

That's one of the big mysteries of music.... You try to sound like someone, and you end up sounding like yourself with traces of someone else...

Wes doesn't sound anything like Charlie Christian, to me, for example.

We are basically all hybrids of our influences. I find that after harvesting a line from someone's solo, over time I wind up modifying it so much in order to fit different situations that eventually one line can become many lines, which bear varying degrees of resemblance to the original. There may still be some essence of the original player's line, but with my mods a line ultimately becomes my own.

Paul

**christianm77** · 05-23-2016, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by PaulD

We are basically all hybrids of our influences. I find that after harvesting a line from someone's solo, over time I wind up modifying it so much in order to fit different situations that eventually one line can become many lines, which bear varying degrees of resemblance to the original. There may still be some essence of the original player's line, but with my mods a line ultimately becomes my own.

Paul

I dunno... I think it's more than that TBH.

We also pickup stuff unknowingly by ear without it having transcribed it consciously. A lot of music learning is actually unconscious and intuitive - especially bandstand learning...

Things influence us whether we know it or not...

**PaulD** · 05-23-2016, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

I dunno... I think it's more than that TBH.

We also pickup stuff unknowingly by ear without it having transcribed it consciously. A lot of music learning is actually unconscious and intuitive - especially bandstand learning...

Things influence us whether we know it or not...

Yes, I agree, and that's what I meant by being hybrids of our influences...all of our influences.

**MarkRhodes** · 05-23-2016, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

That's one of the big mysteries of music.... You try to sound like someone, and you end up sounding like yourself with traces of someone else...

Wes doesn't sound anything like Charlie Christian, to me, for example.

Right, and Joe Pass didn't sound like his favorite guitarist, Django.

**lawson-stone** · 05-23-2016, 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by MarkRhodes

Right, and Joe Pass didn't sound like his favorite guitarist, Django.

And yet, there is something of the almost baroque, ornate type of elaboration, almost an excess of virtuosity, that Joe Pass and Django share.

Have some auditory equations I often find myself thinking about:

Charlie Christian + Charlie Parker = Barney Kessell
Django + Charlie Parker + Art Tatum = Joe Pass
Charlie Christian + Lester Young? Chico Hamilton? (insert non-bop jazz influence) = Jim Hall
Charlie Christian + ??? = Wes Montgomery

Etc.

That is, I find Django, Charlie Christian, and Charlie Parker's obvious presence or absence in a guitarist's playing seems to register heavily on me. I don't hear a lot of CC in Joe Pass. Jim Hall totally knew the bop idiom, but you really don't hear a lot of Bird in Jim Hall's playing. Etc.

You could almost make it: [Seminal Guitarist]+[Seminal Non-Guitarist]=Famous Jazz Guitarist

Not really so mechanical, but that's often how it sounds to me.

I know I'm insane...

**gggomez** · 05-24-2016, 12:15 AM

Mr Beaumont I agree I think hou are developing a wondefful voice. I would love to hear you do some originals, think they will be beaut.

Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk

**targuit** · 05-24-2016, 01:57 AM

Just have to say that I loved the clips by Dana and Paul D. Great playing.

I had written a whole post about whether it is better to actually transcribe note-for-note solos or just put your own improvisation out there, but this thread has sort of drifted a bit and so I just edited it to say how great those clips were. Good stuff.

**christianm77** · 05-24-2016, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by sjl

For me transcribing is a nightmare, but I try, I keep failing, but everyday I fail better.
I leave transcribing software for this task, was to easy to locate what I call anchor notes. The ones that I need, not having absolute pitch for develop a phrase from that. With this software is very easy to locate just two notes and to clearly know the interval between. I prefer Amazing slow downer because it forces me to hear the relation between several notes and it forces me to transcribe rhythms (is very easy with transcribing because you actually watch the rhythm).
Because I am bad at this, I try to make the things even harder. May be i have some guitar bondage syndrome.

That's the spirit! If you find it easy, it wouldn't be practice...

I enjoy finding stuff difficult though - provided it's difficult in the right way... (That's a whole subject in itself) Masochism? Perhaps... Bloody mindedness? Definitely. Most important character trait for a jazz guitarist IMO.

I think little and often, just get into the habit of it... It does get easier.

I find transcribing after a bout of ear training with the Bruce Arnold mp3's of doom gets easier too... It helps me to warm up the ears just like my hands...

**christianm77** · 05-24-2016, 09:46 AM

@destiny - the way I've heard it told, some of the old guys saw their music as very much their own personal property. Apparently that's how false fingerings got started - a way to throw musical competitors off the scent.

It wasn't all caring, sharing and cuddly hippy new age loveliness like now... These guys were hard-nosed.

**mr. beaumont** · 05-24-2016, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by gggomez

Mr Beaumont I agree I think hou are developing a wondefful voice. I would love to hear you do some originals, think they will be beaut.

Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk

Thank you! I have a bunch...I'll get them out there.

**lawson-stone** · 05-24-2016, 10:00 AM

Friend I have a transcription of a nice solo on "I'm Old fashioned" played by Kenny Burrell, but I'm having a beast of a time finding it! I'd just play it and record it, but it's been several years since I did it and I only recall a few of the best licks. It has, for example, one of the nicest opening phrases of any solo I've heard. Classic KB.

Pick up the recording below at about 1:15 to hear the last phrase of the head and the opening of KB's lovely solo.

destinytot · 05-24-2016, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by christianm77

@destiny - the way I've heard it told, some of the old guys saw their music as very much their own personal property. Apparently that's how false fingerings got started - a way to throw musical competitors off the scent.

It wasn't all caring, sharing and cuddly hippy new age loveliness like now... These guys were hard-nosed.

Understandable in context, perhaps. Vessels of clay, vessels of gold - both can carry BS. That hard-nosedness almost seems cuddly - but I'm glad to be in this here-and-now.

**targuit** · 05-24-2016, 10:05 AM

What exactly is "false fingering"? I mean, I think I know, but there are some considerations. For example there is a French guitarist who creates transcriptions using Apple Logic of music by Wes Montgomery that he displays with a virtual fingerboard as well as tab and notation. Very nice. One of the tunes is I've Grown Accustomed to Your Face in the key of E off one of Wes' great albums as a solo guitar performance. I think it was Full House.

Anyway, there are certainly different ways to finger the very same notes. In the case of Giloric (I think that is his name), my own fingering of the very same notation would be much simpler. So in this case "false fingering" might simply be due to how you choose to finger the notes for whatever reason.

destinytot · 05-24-2016, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by targuit

What exactly is "false fingering"? I mean, I think I know, but there are some considerations. For example there is a French guitarist who creates transcriptions using Apple Logic of music by Wes Montgomery that he displays with a virtual fingerboard as well as tab and notation. Very nice. One of the tunes is I've Grown Accustomed to Your Face in the key of E off one of Wes' great albums as a solo guitar performance. I think it was Full House.

Anyway, there are certainly different ways to finger the very same notes. In the case of Giloric (I think that is his name), my own fingering of the very same notation would be much simpler. So in this case "false fingering" might simply be due to how you choose to finger the notes for whatever reason.

You're kidding, right?

**mr. beaumont** · 05-24-2016, 10:11 AM

False fingering was a horn thing...there's different ways to play the same note, some guys figured out other ways that produced the same note, but with some overtones, etc...they were the pitch, but sounded different, unique...

**targuit** · 05-24-2016, 10:11 AM

You mean regarding the term 'false fingering'? No, I really don't recall encountering stories or articles about that.

I'm just a naïve kid at heart, if not in body.

**targuit** · 05-24-2016, 10:18 AM

Oh, horn playing! Saliva everywhere - ickh! Now I get it. I thought you guys were referring to mysterious guitar fingerings.....

destinytot · 05-24-2016, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by targuit

I'm just a naïve kid at heart, if not in body.

Best way to be. Sending you good vibes, man.

Off to work - to buy the right to do my thang.

Re. transcription, I've always wanted to get down some of Michael Brecker's phrases from his playing on Michael Franks albums. I'm setting myself that challenge.

**targuit** · 05-24-2016, 10:22 AM

Btw, Lawson, that is a nice KB recording! Just Friends is one of those songs that has never really grabbed me, but I like this version. Not especially difficult to play but great tone and phrasing. Don't misunderstand - I don't judge (guitar) playing by 'degree of difficulty' like gymnastics or a diving competition. To me it is about feel and swing and emotions. Kenny just knows how to put all that together and make you tap your foot.

**targuit** · 05-24-2016, 10:29 AM

Here is a really nice guitar solo by KB that just happened to be in the YT neighborhood of that I'm Old Fashioned cut. This is an easy and very tuneful ballad paced solo. I'm going to check out the rest of the related cuts from this album with Coleman Hawkins and KB.

Check this out. To me KB is all about the songs.

**christianm77** · 05-24-2016, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by destinytot

Understandable in context, perhaps. Vessels of clay, vessels of gold - both can carry BS. That hard-nosedness almost seems cuddly - but I'm glad to be in this here-and-now.

Ha! Me too.

**manda** · 05-24-2016, 11:15 AM

I started transcribing solos maybe year and a half ago. Before that, I was playing jazz, let's say, from theory, and from the licks that I managed to catch on the fly and I did it for years and years. Although I new much about jazz theory it was a problem to me to transcribe solos. But, as time goes by, this is more and more easier task to me and I really enjoy it.

I transcribe mostly piano players like Red Garland, Wynton Kelly, Hank Jones, Tommy Flanagan. Sound and phrasing on piano is most familiar to me

**mr. beaumont** · 05-24-2016, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by targuit

Here is a really nice guitar solo by KB that just happened to be in the YT neighborhood of that I'm Old Fashioned cut. This is an easy and very tuneful ballad paced solo. I'm going to check out the rest of the related cuts from this album with Coleman Hawkins and KB.

Check this out. To me KB is all about the songs.

That's a great record.

If by chance you're not familiar with it, be sure to check out "The Hawk Relaxes." More Hawk/KB...more great stuff to steal. You'd love it.

**lawson-stone** · 05-24-2016, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by targuit

Btw, Lawson, that is a nice KB recording! Just Friends is one of those songs that has never really grabbed me, but I like this version. Not especially difficult to play but great tone and phrasing. Don't misunderstand - I don't judge (guitar) playing by 'degree of difficulty' like gymnastics or a diving competition. To me it is about feel and swing and emotions. Kenny just knows how to put all that together and make you tap your foot.

Actually the tune is "I'm Old Fashioned"