The Saddest Chord Progression Ever

[Jonah]

I could inform you, in gruesome detail, but it's not for me to do your homework.

The word sad is related to sorrow and grief. Sentimentality, on the other hand, is about nostalgia, romanticism, idealism, and so on. They are completely different. If you said to parents who were upset because they had lost a child that they were merely being 'sentimental' god knows what would happen.

Then consider this piano player. Obviously you don't know who he is. He's a world renowned classical concert pianist who can play the deepest and most difficult pieces flawlessly by ear. If you think such a mind would then descend into mawkish sentimentality at the loss of so many of his people in the tsunami, including those he knew, then I have nothing to say. It's not a 'pop song' and it's only a gross uncomprehending ignorance that would suggest it.

Enough? No doubt you'll have some clever answer but it doesn't really bother me. For those who have ears to hear, let them hear.

So many words...

I have ears... that is my problem.

And my ears can tell me everything, I do not need to read names, titles, credentials and biographies to justify bad music.


Sentimentality is common... I hate 'The Schindler's List' and its soundtrack as find it comfortable hollywoodish pulp made to quiet the possible remorses of modern fed up consumers and makers using all the manipulative tools of cinema but I still cried when I watched it...

It is very simple... and does not make it good.

[Jonah]

The article in the OP made some sense as it discussed an idiom.

But now people just put in the songs that makes them feel sad... who cares really?

[gitman]

The article in the OP made some sense as it discussed an idiom.

But now people just put in the songs that makes them feel sad... who cares really?

So should we all EXPLAIN it to YOU why we feel that these songs evoke "sad" feelings in us ? Would
that make more sense to you and why should WE care that you do not care ?

[MarkRhodes]

The article in the OP made some sense as it discussed an idiom.

But now people just put in the songs that makes them feel sad... who cares really?

I agree we have drifted. (And I have been part of that.) In the OP, the sadness is inherent in the chord progression itself. (That is the claim, anyway.) Not in a lyric or vocal melody sung over it.

I found it interesting that he calls this "the Willie Nelson turnaround". Willie has written a lot of sad songs and this is something that seems fitting to him. Am D9 Fm C (one bar each) is not chipper, any way you slice it.

[Jonah]

So should we all EXPLAIN it to YOU why we feel that these songs evoke "sad" feelings in us ? Would
that make more sense to you and why should WE care that you do not care ?

Yes, it would make more sense for me. Becaus eit would be more of a discussion.

People lost ability to kead conversation, they take everything as an insult.

We all have the right to express opinions, right?

It seems we live in the times when everyone has the right to be an idiot (me included sometimes), but no-one has the right to tell him about it.


Lets relax... I did not instult that Japanese pianist, he might be great personality but I think music is bad (no, not that I do not like it and it is the matte rof taste, I think it is bad).
I think the arguments of ragman1 are poor in that context (though I like ragman1's playing) as he tries to convince me that music is good because everything around it is good. No, it does not get better because of that.


and finally... yes, the OP had quite simple but interesting attempet to talk about the musical semantics as language. Very rare topic here... and it slides away...

I do not care.. becasue it is forum and I really do not care.. I may seem a bit provocative but I consider it is partly serious, partly a joke...

Hope, really hope that people are not being insulted... but on the other hand I am already beyond the point to really care about it.

[Danny W.]

I love that song!

First hit single for both Ms. Gore and producer Quincy Jones.

He also produced "You Don't Own Me," another hit for Lesley.

Danny W.

[ragman1]

Jonah -

I wasn't trying to convince you, I was just putting the thing in context. If you don't like that sort of music, that's fine, but, frankly, your criticism went beyond that. You reduced that piece to a pop song and said using the tsunami deaths was a sort of manipulative trick... Sorry, but that's disgraceful.

I know what you mean, don't think I don't. If you come to that piece cold then, all right, it's just a pretty little tune, very simple and perhaps obvious harmonies, but you surely can't deny it was attractive and conveyed sorrow. Anyone who thought it didn't would be rather lacking in human emotion in my opinion.

The boy is blind and a skilled classical pianist and also quite young. Also, the Japanese, underneath the rigidity, are very emotional people. I suppose Tsujii could have written something with greater intellectual gravitas - in fact I'm quite sure he could - but he didn't. He kept it very, very simple and heartfelt. You heard the reaction of the crowd to it. Further, I don't think there is one reviewer I've read who said that it wasn't beautiful to them.

You say I try to justify the quality of the music by describing its context. Of course I am. Any review of classical music is very often accompanied by a description of how and when it was written, at what point in the composer's life, and under what conditions or state of health, and so on. This is usual, it's normal, and people benefit by knowing these things; it helps them understand the music better.

Apart from all this there's also the fact that he played it beautifully. Even if you don't like that kind of thing you surely can't deny that. Incidentally, I think the title of the video - 'Pianist in tears!' - is misleading. It was far more likely to be sweat coming off him than tears and many have pointed that out.

I said I thought you were uninformed. I believe you were. I think you put on the tune knowing nothing about it and rejected it outright because you thought it was shallow. I don't believe it was shallow at all if you understand it. But it's up to you... and I could be wrong, of course.

[ragman1]

But, to go back to your very good point about discussing chord sequences, I believe volumes have been written about the psychological effects of music. I don't know why a particular chord, or combinations of sounds, should evoke sorrow, joy, or other emotions. Perhaps there is someone here who does.

[ragman1]

And if we're going to go popular, try this.

[christianm77]

A.................................A+
It's my party and I'll cry if I want to

D .........................Dm
cry if I want to cry if I want to

Now that's sad. Note how the changes all hit on the word "cry"--how deep is that?

Danny W.

That was my favourite tune when I was 4

Incidentally, I always find the melancholy of ABBA songs rather sophisticated

[pauln]

The really sad songs don't have or need words...

[christianm77]

Ah but what makes ABBA such classic pop perfection is the way the words work against or undercut the music...

[christianm77]

Yes, it would make more sense for me. Becaus eit would be more of a discussion.

People lost ability to kead conversation, they take everything as an insult.

We all have the right to express opinions, right?

It seems we live in the times when everyone has the right to be an idiot (me included sometimes), but no-one has the right to tell him about it.


Lets relax... I did not instult that Japanese pianist, he might be great personality but I think music is bad (no, not that I do not like it and it is the matte rof taste, I think it is bad).
I think the arguments of ragman1 are poor in that context (though I like ragman1's playing) as he tries to convince me that music is good because everything around it is good. No, it does not get better because of that.


and finally... yes, the OP had quite simple but interesting attempet to talk about the musical semantics as language. Very rare topic here... and it slides away...

I do not care.. becasue it is forum and I really do not care.. I may seem a bit provocative but I consider it is partly serious, partly a joke...

Hope, really hope that people are not being insulted... but on the other hand I am already beyond the point to really care about it.

Everyone seems to feel that 'personal taste' is the only arbiter, and the truth is I'd be the first to hold my hands up and say I have no taste at all when listening to classical music (in fact, I have no taste at all.)

So I'll listen to some Mozart played by jazz piano players

And I'll think 'oh sounds nice. I like Mozart.'

And my wife laughs and says 'bless them they have no feel for the phrasing at all.'

A bit like how a classical player might have no feeling for swing?

Point being there are people with a more refined sensibility - in jazz, classical, EDM - whatever you can imagine. You might not hear it, but they can. That's quite a lot of the input I had when studying classical singing - do this here, don't do this. Phrase this like this, and so on. Lots of interpretation coaching by people who could hear more than me.

Look, before I get some angry stanning, I'm aware Jarrett has acquitted himself well AFAIK in classical piano with his recordings for ECM, I'm just saying you might be able to play the notes, but you don't necessarily hear like a virtuoso in that idiom. For some reason people think it's enough to play the dots in classical, and this is no more true of classical than jazz.

Actually listening again, it's pretty clunky to my ears, too. But TBF Mozart's really really hard to do well.

Within a given aesthetic it is entirely reasonable to talk about 'good' and 'bad'; it is possible to talk about good and bad classical performances, and it is possible to talk about good or bad bebop, for instance.

Anyway, people do take things very personally. No doubt someone will think I'm saying Chick can't play or something.

[wzpgsr]

[Jazzism]

At least there is no argument here. Thanks to Nigel, we now know that D minor IS the saddest of all keys. No further discussion needed really, LOL.
cheers!

[MarkRhodes]

Build me up buttercup is a song about involuntary isolation .. It's the feeling of walking thru a sunlight park with children laughing and playing while all you're black and only aware of hope fading to nothing inside you ... It's putting on a smiley face in the midst of depression.

I get that the SINGER is sad---he's heartbroken---but the song is joyous to hear.

[joelf]

Dunno about progressions, but unequivocally the most depressing verse to a song I've ever encountered is to Street of Dreams. I will never play it unless there's a gun to my head, and if it is sung on a gig I'm on I'll accompany and pray it's over with fast.

The tune proper is a classic though. Love it...

[joelf]

'It's sort of Mach'...

[ragman1]

I thought this was supposed to be about chord progressions? Being a jazz forum, etc...

[rabbit]

"The saddest chord progression ever?"

A secret only Carlos Santana knows.

[christianm77]

"The saddest chord progression ever?"

A secret only Carlos Santana knows.

Then it is ii-V?

[ragman1]

Yeah ... Let's ignore the sadness and anything vaguely resembling emotion. Keep jazz discussion 100% technical .. Like what melodic minor scale to apply where.

You're quite right, I left out the word sad. I thought this was supposed to be about sad chord progressions, or chords that produced the feeling of sadness.

But actually that's not right either because the title of the thread only asks if the music in the video is the saddest progression ever...

... and the answer to that is I've no idea. Could be, but I doubt it. I'm sure there are sadder sounds than that.

[benrosow]

Except Willie thinks he playing Fmaj, Emaj7, Ebmaj, not Fmaj, Abmin, Ebmaj. The bass is moving down in half steps because Willie Learned from jazz masters.

[ll00l0l]

People confuse sadness with sentimentality or depressing melancholy. It's neither. Sadness is usually characterised by simplicity and is never sentimental.

Ragman, can you explain a bit more? I'm not quite following your connection.

[2bornot2bop]

Beethoven was pretty good with chords.

Saddest, this is what came to mind.

Beethoven wrote the sonata for a younger student who he was attracted to. But being from different social classes there was no hope of a relationship. Also near this time Beethoven’s hearing loss had become more serious. Yes, I’m certain these facts combined to echo a melancholy spirit within the sonata. It is but the first of three movements of a sonata that is the most well known.

Btw, it’s Piano Sonata No. 14 in C sharp minor. It’s suggested that 5 years after his death that a critic dubbed the tune Moonlight Sonata, and it stuck.

Me, I think it’s 69 measures of pure joy which has lived on for a couple centuries. But it didn’t define Beethoven. I believe Symphony 7, or 5, or 9 did.