The Summer of Rhythm Guitar 2024

[mr. beaumont]

I'll only speak for myself:

Freddie played different sized chords throughout his career. Right now I'm focusing on the earlier style because I don't think the "one note" thing is as easy as people think...and from watching videos, it seems FG was still fretting more notes when he was playing fewer...it changes the sound (at least at slower/medium tempos)

So my thinking is get swinging like this, then start to remove notes. No rush, I'm in this for the long haul.

[Ukena]

I'll only speak for myself:

Freddie played different sized chords throughout his career. Right now I'm focusing on the earlier style because I don't think the "one note" thing is as easy as people think...and from watching videos, it seems FG was still fretting more notes when he was playing fewer...it changes the sound (at least at slower/medium tempos)

So my thinking is get swinging like this, then start to remove notes. No rush, I'm in this for the long haul.

Thanks – that takes care of my confusion. I get what you're aiming for, and it makes perfect sense. And this thanks for your constant attention and helpful vids!

[pawlowski6132]

I'm a little confused. We keep on talking about Freddie Green-style comping, and yet I hear almost every clip here playing the root of the chords on the E or A strings. Even if it's a 3-note chord, almost every time the lowest note is the root of the chord, unless it's a walk-up bass.

I thought the whole point of rhythm guitar was not duplicating the notes the bass is playing? I understand that in this thread we are almost all playing solo, but I thought the point was to work on how we would play rhythm with a group – say, a big band – which would almost necessarily include a bass...

Don't get me wrong – I have absolutely no problem with the kind of comping seen in most of these videos, since that is the kind I have done most of my life, being used to not having a bassist. I'm just thinking about the Freddie Green thing (also done very well by James Chirillo, who often sits in with the EarRegulars...).

Here's me providing bass and rhythm with my erstwhile trio:

Why are you guys using capos?????

[AllanAllen]

I still have to play a bass note to mentally see the chord. As an example My goal is to see say D7 on a sheet and grab xx45xx without thinking about and cutting the A or D bass note.

Your group sounds nice. Looks like a fun gig

[pawlowski6132]

I thought the whole point of rhythm guitar was not duplicating the notes the bass is playing?

How would you EVER know what the bass player is playing??

[Bop Head]

How would you EVER know what the bass player is playing??

Clairvoyance is the secret of the jazz master.

[pawlowski6132]

I still have to play a bass note to mentally see the chord. As an example My goal is to see say D7 on a sheet and grab xx45xx without thinking about and cutting the A or D bass note.

Your group sounds nice. Looks like a fun gig

Why can't you just grab the full D7???

Also, learning intervals is KEY!!

If you do, you'll "see" that relative to the D on the 5th string, the xx45xx is the 3rd and dom7.

[mr. beaumont]

How would you EVER know what the bass player is playing??

Well, listening to the greats from this era, there's a lot of roots on the first beat, with yes, occasional deviations.

The danger in stepping on a bass player's toes exists a lot more with amplified guitar, in my opinion. While swing rhythm guitar and bass are percussive in nature, the timbres and decay are different.

[mr. beaumont]

Why can't you just grab the full D7???

I still would as long as tempo allowed.

What I'm starting to work on is varying finger pressure so that, say in a 5x45xx D7, the 4th string note sounds clearly while the 6th and 3rd are fretted, but with less pressure. This is surprisingly difficult.

[pawlowski6132]

I still would as long as tempo allowed.

What I'm starting to work on is varying finger pressure so that, say in a 5x45xx D7, the 4th string note sounds clearly while the 6th and 3rd are fretted, but with less pressure. This is surprisingly difficult.

I do the same thing.

I find myself employing, with the LEFT hand the 'La Pompe' technique from Manouche style and aiming to play the top 3/4 strings for pure rhythm/comping and additional strings intentionally or with more emphasis with my RIGHT hand accordingly.

But, for that crisp, staccato sound, the LEFT hand is 10x more important than how many intervals of a chord you're playing NOBODY will ever hear that.

[AllanAllen]

Why can't you just grab the full D7???

Also, learning intervals is KEY!!

If you do, you'll "see" that relative to the D on the 5th string, the xx45xx is the 3rd and dom7.

Extra punctuation and caps locked words make it seem like you are upset.

[pawlowski6132]

Extra punctuation and caps locked words make it seem like you are upset.

Sorry. My kids tell me that all the time.

Too lazy to edit using bold, italicis and underline for emphasis.

Not upset at all.

[AllanAllen]

Cool, now that that's out of the way.

I just want to have the kind of fret-board mastery where I can grab chord fragments instead of the whole thing. I want to mentally call D7 and instantly know my options, these rootless shells are a mental hangup for me, especially the ones with a D string root.. I mean, not D7 that's like the first D string root you learn, but going for Ab7 xxx878 will trip me up. I know where the Ab is, but then I have to abstract it to grab the rootless chord.

It's hard to me to describe my mental process, but there's a system of root then chord I'm trying to break free of. Or something like that.

[pawlowski6132]

Cool, now that that's out of the way.

I just want to have the kind of fret-board mastery where I can grab chord fragments instead of the whole thing. I want to mentally call D7 and instantly know my options, these rootless shells are a mental hangup for me, especially the ones with a D string root.. I mean, not D7 that's like the first D string root you learn, but going for Ab7 xxx878 will trip me up. I know where the Ab is, but then I have to abstract it to grab the rootless chord.

It's hard to me to describe my mental process, but there's a system of root then chord I'm trying to break free of. Or something like that.

I think that's totally normal though, that's the general process I think.

You'll always have to mentally/visually know where a root is to understand the intervals because it's all relative.

xxx878 can be Ab7 if you're visualizing the root here xx6878
or
xxx878 can be Ebm6
or
xxx878 can be Cdim
or
xx878 can be F#6(b5)

It all depends on what you're assigning as the root.

Anywho, I created this for myself some time ago and it was pretty easy to understand where the intervals were relative to a root.

I usually just pick a root on the 6th or 5th string and I can see/play the intervals with or without the root included.



xxx(R), 5, b7, 3

[Mick-7]

I just want to have the kind of fret-board mastery where I can grab chord fragments instead of the whole thing. I want to mentally call D7 and instantly know my options, these rootless shells are a mental hangup for me, especially the ones with a D string root.. I mean, not D7 that's like the first D string root you learn, but going for Ab7 xxx878 will trip me up. I know where the Ab is, but then I have to abstract it to grab the rootless chord.

Try thinking of the basic chord shapes, they will indicate the chord's nature: major, minor, dominant, etc. (keeping chord synonyms in mind)

So for example, sticking with 1-3-7 & 1-3-6 voicings (except for the 7b9) - just notating the bass strings.

Major (GM7): 3-x-4-4
Major (G6): 3-x-2-4

Minor (Gm7): 3-x-3-3
Minor (Gm6/ IIm6) & 7b9 (C7b9/ V7b9): 3-x-2-3

Dominant 7th (G7): 3-x-3-4 (and the 7b9 voicing above)
- etc.

Howard Roberts suggested this in one of his books. But it gets trickier with inversions, such as:

5-x-3-5 (Dm7) -> 4-x-3-4 (G7b9) -> 3-x-3-4 (G7).