The Summer of Rhythm Guitar 2024

[mr. beaumont]

I'm cool with anything goes, honestly. More on 2 note chords coming today...

[pawlowski6132]

I think Christian, with his good intentions, overlooked the whole point of this thread.

Here from Jeff's first post:

"What is the Summer of Rhythm Guitar? Simply the idea of devoting time every day to playing old school Freddie Green style Rhythm Guitar. 3 note, 2 note, and 1 note chords. Any tune. Any tempo.

What is the Summer of Rhythm Guitar NOT?

Any other kind of "comping""


I can easily play more complex, I am trying to reduce the harmony to its core and not play anything other than (maximum) three note voicings on the 6th, 4th & 3rd strings with four beats and minimal upbeats in the right hand.

I am well aware that I can play a minor 7th shell for a half dim., but that is precisely the challenge, creating limiting parameters in order to force myself to find possible solutions to play a three note voicing for every chord family.

What would be the point of that?? I guess if you were the guitar player on the Count Basie Reality Tourr and you wanted to play EXACTLY as FG did but, who does that?

[Christian Miller]

I think Christian, with his good intentions, overlooked the whole point of this thread.

Here from Jeff's first post:

"What is the Summer of Rhythm Guitar? Simply the idea of devoting time every day to playing old school Freddie Green style Rhythm Guitar. 3 note, 2 note, and 1 note chords. Any tune. Any tempo.

What is the Summer of Rhythm Guitar NOT?

Any other kind of "comping""


I can easily play more complex, I am trying to reduce the harmony to its core and not play anything other than (maximum) three note voicings on the 6th, 4th & 3rd strings with four beats and minimal upbeats in the right hand.

I am well aware that I can play a minor 7th shell for a half dim., but that is precisely the challenge, creating limiting parameters in order to force myself to find possible solutions to play a three note voicing for every chord family.

OK, so more an exercise in developing there note chord voicings through the string set. Good to learn.

I’m sort of looking at it a bit more idiomatically.

FWIW the approach you are discussing has more to do with George Van Eps than FG, he was the big three note guy. Another name is his student Allan Reuss. (FG Did have lessons with Reuss but he doesn’t appear to have gone down the three note route.)

obviously a lot of people use Freddie Green as a synonym for ‘big band rhythm guitar’ which is also confusing.

We can get into the semantics of the words “Freddie Green” and whether or not I’ve missed the point if you like, but I feel Jeff wanted a playing thread?

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[pcjazz]

I am well aware that I can play a minor 7th shell for a half-dim...

Or a m6 shell voiced from the 6th (and its inversions)

[Christian Miller]

I mean these are my go to’s for an Am7b5

2 x 1 2 x x
5 x 5 5 x x
8 x 7 9 x x
12 x 10 11 x x


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[mr. beaumont]

More musings on what this is all about/why bother and 2 note chords.

[Question]

Hi Christian,

ok, thanks for the info.

Yes, let's get back to playing!

The voicings that you wrote for A half-dim. are the ones that I commonly use. (although I get your intention, you wrote a couple of E-naturals that you might want to correct to avoid confusion)

I was just curious if I could get a root position half dim. to work without using the B string, and the only possibility that I found was to either to play:

"A" Half dim.

5 6 X 5 X X Which is pretty muddy until you get up to the 10th fret or so. (D half-dim.)

The other possibility is to leave out the root and just play the Eb and C X 6 X 5 X X

Anyway, these are just academic exercises and are not (yet) attempting to address the subject of style.

[mr. beaumont]

Christian, help me out with that Am7b5 with a E in the bass...

[Christian Miller]

Mistake

Should be

3 x 1 2 x x
5 x 5 5 x x
8 x 7 8 x x
11 x 10 12 x x

Prob makes more sense

Now I slepe


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[mr. beaumont]

Definitely makes more sense.

Don't feel bad about the error, remember that video I made in my car today? Locked my keys in it when I went in to pick my guys up. Thank goodness the windows were down most of the way and nobody wants to steal my rustbucket.

[pawlowski6132]

Ok, so, here's a rant. I was just trying to internalize and understand why I think that Freddie Green guy is so lame.

I was just working through 'On the Street Where you Live' and the opportunity for harmony and super rich chords is so awesome. I just LOVE to hear/play substitutions, alterations, extensions, modal interplay etc.

How can you do that when you're playing one or two note chords?????

SUX!

I guess FG works IF you're playing in a Big Band and the arrangement has all the harmony covered but, I think that is just like playing classical music where you're SO restricted and have to play what's written and in front of you; lame. Nice to listen to but, I think it would SUCK to have to just play written music over and over again.

I want to play rich harmonic progressions on the fly.

BUT all while keeping the rhythm and sounding, like someone said earlier, like a pair of brushes on a snare.

With that said, does someone want to share their recording of 'On the Street Where you Live'?

[supersoul]

Ok, so, here's a rant. I was just trying to internalize and understand why I think that Freddie Green guy is so lame.

I was just working through 'On the Street Where you Live' and the opportunity for harmony and super rich chords is so awesome. I just LOVE to hear/play substitutions, alterations, extensions, modal interplay etc.

How can you do that when you're playing one or two note chords?????

SUX!

To me, this is like getting mad that the tambourine player isn't playing complex harmonies.

Playing the tambourine, while it sounds easy when you hear it, is actually hard to do well. If the tambourine is off by a little bit it throws the whole band off.

Freddie Green was a groove machine with a deep pocket. At least that's how I see him. He makes it sound effortless.

This track is cool because the rhythm section is just Freddie and a bass player. The other guitar player is Kenny Burrell, btw.

[pawlowski6132]

To me, this is like getting mad that the tambourine player isn't playing complex harmonies.

Playing the tambourine, while it sounds easy when you hear it, is actually hard to do well. If the tambourine is off by a little bit it throws the whole band off.

Freddie Green was a groove machine with a deep pocket. At least that's how I see him. He makes it sound effortless.

This track is cool because the rhythm section is just Freddie and a bass player. The other guitar player is Kenny Burrell, btw.

I think the fact that you're comparing Freddie Green to a tambourine player in the band supports my point.

I like the count Basie orchestra with Freddie Green just as much as the next guy. In fact the live at birdland album is one of my top 10 if not top five desert Island albums. My point is it's so one dimensional and boring it's great to recognize the good takeaways from that style and approach but really there's so much more to rhythm guitar that we should be exploring here

[supersoul]

I think the fact that you're comparing Freddie Green to a tambourine player in the band supports my point.

I like the count Basie orchestra with Freddie Green just as much as the next guy. In fact the live at birdland album is one of my top 10 if not top five desert Island albums. My point is it's so one dimensional and boring it's great to recognize the good takeaways from that style and approach but really there's so much more to rhythm guitar that we should be exploring here

I don't think the track I posted is one dimensional. The rhythm is just the bass player and Freddie Green. To me it's bad ass, and that's what this thread is about: exploring that style of rhythm guitar playing.

[pawlowski6132]

I don't think the track I posted is one dimensional. The rhythm is just the bass player and Freddie Green. To me it's bad ass, and that's what this thread is about: exploring that style of rhythm guitar playing.

100%. I couldn't agree more.

[AllanAllen]

To me, this is like getting mad that the tambourine player isn't playing complex harmonies.

Playing the tambourine, while it sounds easy when you hear it, is actually hard to do well. If the tambourine is off by a little bit it throws the whole band off.

Freddie Green was a groove machine with a deep pocket. At least that's how I see him. He makes it sound effortless.

This track is cool because the rhythm section is just Freddie and a bass player. The other guitar player is Kenny Burrell, btw.

Another album I didn’t know I needed. Thanks!! Know of anything else sparse but swinging like this?

[supersoul]

Another album I didn’t know I needed. Thanks!! Know of anything else sparse but swinging like this?

I don't know of anything else this sparse, especially without drums. It's the only one even on that album.

[mr. beaumont]

So I'll definitely say I don't find this style boring at all...and to get to the point (eventually) where I can improvise a tenor line that weaves through the arrangement but rhythmically drives the band as well? That's downright exciting sounding.

There's a time and place for more harmonic information of course, and I'm not suggesting this is the only way I'd accompany someone on guitar.

On the Street Where You Live? I'll take a look...all I can think of is a somewhat cheeseball but yet still great Dean Martin version right now.

[pawlowski6132]

So I'll definitely say I don't find this style boring at all...and to get to the point (eventually) where I can improvise a tenor line that weaves through the arrangement but rhythmically drives the band as well? That's downright exciting sounding.

There's a time and place for more harmonic information of course, and I'm not suggesting this is the only way I'd accompany someone on guitar.

On the Street Where You Live? I'll take a look...all I can think of is a somewhat cheeseball but yet still great Dean Martin version right now.

That's funny. Yeah I heard that horrible version in fact this is a weird song where in most of the versions I hear are either super corny or played in really weird styles.

I like the temple style that William has here

I would love to hear somebody's take on this

[Phil59]

I have enjoyed this thread even though much of it is way over my head. I am interested primarily in learning more about various three-note and four-note voicings played on the lower four strings, four beats to the bar, all downstrokes. Anywhere from one to four chords per measure. Definitely not Freddie Green. Can anybody recommend a good source?

[pcjazz]

I have enjoyed this thread even though much of it is way over my head. I am interested primarily in learning more about various three-note and four-note voicings played on the lower four strings, four beats to the bar, all downstrokes. Anywhere from one to four chords per measure. Definitely not Freddie Green. Can anybody recommend a good source?

Charlton Johnson has a book about this as also does Ranger Doug. Johnson’s has “Freddie Green” in the title but as you observed it is a more generic rhythm approach than Green’s.

[mr. beaumont]

Seconding the Ranger Doug and Charlton Johnson books.

I will still say I'm not going to try and teach this, but tomorrow's video will be a "get started" for anybody interested...maybe I can help this not seem complicated and get some more people to play along.

[AllanAllen]

I have enjoyed this thread even though much of it is way over my head. I am interested primarily in learning more about various three-note and four-note voicings played on the lower four strings, four beats to the bar, all downstrokes. Anywhere from one to four chords per measure. Definitely not Freddie Green. Can anybody recommend a good source?

Jazz Guitar Chords

I try not to buy books. I’ve found I don’t use them.

[Phil59]

Jazz Guitar Chords

I try not to buy books. I’ve found I don’t use them.

D'oh! Hidden in plain sight. Thank you!

[pawlowski6132]

I have enjoyed this thread even though much of it is way over my head. I am interested primarily in learning more about various three-note and four-note voicings played on the lower four strings, four beats to the bar, all downstrokes. Anywhere from one to four chords per measure. Definitely not Freddie Green. Can anybody recommend a good source?

My book recommendation is don't buy one. It's really a crutch and you end up trying to memorize all these different chord shapes and inversions when if you just learned to visualize the intervals on your fretboard you can figure out how to play any chord and then soloing with chord tones becomes easier to. Plus whenever you want to reharmonize your progressions knowing those intervals is also invaluable it's really really easy and you'll think yourself in the end and in the middle