Inversions

[mr. beaumont]

Hmm, when I played with my college big band, the bass player gave me dirty looks when I played voicings on the bottom strings like those, felt I was invading his territory and muddying his lines (which was true at times). And then Joe Williams, the Count Basie vocalist, told me that in a big band, the sound of the guitar should be "felt rather than heard," so I had to find a middle ground between traditional and modern big band styles. In fact, our repertoire demanded that anyway, for example, there were tunes that called for wah-wah pedal rhythm comping.

Well, those rhythm guitar voicings can't be bashed out on a plugged in electric guitar...

[AllanAllen]

Hmm, when I played with my college big band, the bass player gave me dirty looks when I played voicings on the bottom strings like those, felt I was invading his territory and muddying his lines (which was true at times). And then Joe Williams, the Count Basie vocalist, told me that in a big band, the sound of the guitar should be "felt rather than heard," so I had to find a middle ground between traditional and modern big band styles. In fact, our repertoire demanded that anyway, for example, there were tunes that called for wah-wah pedal rhythm comping.

Eventually I would drop the 6th string stuff... but I had 3 rehearsals and zero experience in this style before the gig. I tried to fret it, but not hit it, but that was a low concern as I was more focused on grabbing ANY grip I could while strumming in time and not losing my place on the sheet zipping my eyes back and forth from guitar to sheet.

[mr. beaumont]

I hear a marked difference in hitting the fourth string all by itself vs. hitting only the fourth string but fretting the other two notes in the "shell." To my ear, if tempo allows, fretting 3 notes even if only playing one (or at least focusing the strum on one) is preferable.

We probably should resurrect the thread now, as this one has drifted a lot from the OP's intentions...

[jazzpazz]

Recently ive just been watching Jens Larsen

[jackalGreen]

That's an interesting POV the OP has.

Personally, as still really a beginner at guitar, the *only* things I play when comping are inversions. Not as a rule, you know, but 90% of the time that's where the notes are, and how the chord progression can move. Or one way, anyway.

And, since all I can really do is comp, and I don't touch the lowest two strings, generally, when finding chords (I'm used to hearing rootless chords, basically for much of my life, so that's how I roll), that's my limit.

Em7? Sure, but also a Cmaj9. And all the other similar "disguises" for various chords. If needed, I can just touch a bass note for reference at the fingerboard. Similar to how you hear bop pianists leaning heavily on the LH to accent the V7 chord or the downbeat at the beginning of a new chorus (and, yes, bebop piano uses a *lot* of LH, at least traditionally....never heard of any bass player complaining about Sonny Clark or Bud or anybody).

Guitar would make absolutely no sense to me if there weren't inverted chords or obvious ways of spelling different voicings. One could do it, sure, but it gets a little mathematized and fiddly, and one runs out of fingers to add extensions (or notes supporting the melody, let's say).

[Christian Miller]

Bit confused - block chords involve inversions?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pamosmusic]

Recently ive just been watching Jens Larsen

n of 1

[Kirk Garrett]

Yeah, I ditched Spotify about 2 years ago, but still use YouTube music...I've encountered very little that isn't there, but I'm not taking chances.

Still have a bunch of CD's in my car. Been blasting Nat King Cole and the Beastie Boys' "Check Your Head" this week.

Maybe I’ll consider YouTube. The Barney album you posted is there, but it’s not on Spotify. I have that very CD arriving today from an eBay purchase, my first CD purchase in 70 million years. I’m excited to receive an actual thing. I could even like, hold it in my hands! However, when I form a mental image of stacks of CDs, I want to hurl. Can’t go back there…..

[Polytune]

Hi,
I found this book from Michael Hofmeier.
Ulli Hoffmeier: Stompin' Guitar by Acoustic Music GmbH & Co. KG - Issuu
Greetings

[mr. beaumont]

Maybe I’ll consider YouTube. The Barney album you posted is there, but it’s not on Spotify. I have that very CD arriving today from an eBay purchase, my first CD purchase in 70 million years. I’m excited to receive an actual thing. I could even like, hold it in my hands! However, when I form a mental image of stacks of CDs, I want to hurl. Can’t go back there…..

I'm overall happy with it, but I have noticed a few things just "disappear."

But I did go storage diving yesterday and I found my CD of "Braff!"

[mr. beaumont]

Hi,
I found this book from Michael Hofmeier.
Ulli Hoffmeier: Stompin' Guitar by Acoustic Music GmbH & Co. KG - Issuu
Greetings

Looks like a pretty good book.

This is a very specific style he's covering. This is 4 beats to the bar RHYTHM guitar. Swing/Big Band stuff...It is not "comping." Well, I suppose you can think of it as a type of comping, but if somebody said "comp for me" I wouldn't play this style unless they specifically asked for it.

[AllanAllen]

I wrote the chord diagram I posted after watching one of Ulli's youtube videos.

[jameslovestal]

That's an interesting POV the OP has.

Personally, as still really a beginner at guitar, the *only* things I play when comping are inversions. Not as a rule, you know, but 90% of the time that's where the notes are, and how the chord progression can move. Or one way, anyway.

And, since all I can really do is comp, and I don't touch the lowest two strings, generally, when finding chords (I'm used to hearing rootless chords, basically for much of my life, so that's how I roll), that's my limit.

Do you play with other musicians? I ask because, at least for me, if there is no one playing the root notes, I tend to use more root-based chord voicings. E.g. two guitar players and thus I'm the only one playing the harmony when the other guy solos.

[rpjazzguitar]

I hear a marked difference in hitting the fourth string all by itself vs. hitting only the fourth string but fretting the other two notes in the "shell." To my ear, if tempo allows, fretting 3 notes even if only playing one (or at least focusing the strum on one) is preferable.

We probably should resurrect the thread now, as this one has drifted a lot from the OP's intentions...

I think there's that guy who did a video at Lincoln Center who demonstrated "chords" on the D string only. Didn't sound good to me, but people say that Freddie Green did it.

There's a Freddie Green website with many transcriptions. According to info there, Freddie did not play the D string by itself. Rather he played three strings but only pressed down hard on the D string. So, he got a real note from the D string, but you could hear something from two other strings, probably usually E and G, I would guess. That gave him his characteristic sound. To my ear, it's a sharper sound than I'd expect from the lower strings of a guitar. And, you probably can't get it any other way. So, I think you're right about that.

[EastwoodMike]

Jazz Academy

James Chirillo- He makes life in a big band sound pretty bland, but in context of all the other instruments he is finding a tonal wedge to place the guitar part into and not clash/muddy up. All depends as well on what instruments are in the band I guess.
EMike

[mr. beaumont]

I think there's that guy who did a video at Lincoln Center who demonstrated "chords" on the D string only. Didn't sound good to me, but people say that Freddie Green did it.

There's a Freddie Green website with many transcriptions. According to info there, Freddie did not play the D string by itself. Rather he played three strings but only pressed down hard on the D string. So, he got a real note from the D string, but you could hear something from two other strings, probably usually E and G, I would guess. That gave him his characteristic sound. To my ear, it's a sharper sound than I'd expect from the lower strings of a guitar. And, you probably can't get it any other way. So, I think you're right about that.

Freddie's style changed over time as the band got bigger too.

Here in a small group you can see he's playing some chords...3 notes probably..

[AllanAllen]

Someone should compile a playlist of songs where he’s most present. I can barely pick him out on some of the recordings.

[Christian Miller]

FG def playing one note on a few recordings at least…. It’s the sort of thing that sounds good in context but a bit weird on its own.

I often comp this way, gives piano plenty of room.

The muted strings give you that impression of a strum which is important for feel, but you aren’t cluttering things up. Between the bass and the guitar (d string is normally 6ths/7ths and 3rds) you have enough harmonic info.

I tend to use it more for piano solos when you need to either stfu or keep it open. This is a nice choice for Basie style charts. It also brings the dynamic level down a bit.

Otoh I play fuller chords when the horns come in.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Christian Miller]

You can hear it on this recording as well (Barry Harris on piano lol.)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jackalGreen]

Do you play with other musicians? I ask because, at least for me, if there is no one playing the root notes, I tend to use more root-based chord voicings.

On guitar, I'm still just shedding, pretty much.

Yeah, you're right that the rootless chord voicings can sound pretty stark or unidiomatic when playing solo.

To me, that's a cue or an opportunity to stress the tonality (or tonalities) with the melody or voice leading, and, for me it's easy enough to imagine a bassline.

That's where I'm glad to have the "extra" finger (the thumb!) hooked over the top of the fretboard to grab a bass note to anchor things. Or even just tapping a pitch on the lower strings, if I can't reach it with the fretting hand. You know, just to ground oneself, if need be.

It's sort of like chord-melody playing, I guess, but like I was saying, I'm pretty used to the sound of the rootless voicings without a bassist or piano, so, while I wouldn't inflict that particular way of playing on an audience, it's enough for me.

If I wanted to play solo, yeah, I would likely just translate basically bebop piano style shell LH voicings to guitar, but, for me, I want to hear more of the midrange of the guitar on up. And, I don't fancy myself a solo player, really, on guitar, at all, so that's how I run the voodoo down.

Bit confused - block chords involve inversions?

Well if they don't then I don't know what they would be! Of course.

[Christian Miller]

And a little fiddling about with Moises later... a new video!

[djg]

And a little fiddling about with Moises later... a new video!

yeah. i just went to the freddiegreen.org site to check the date. i did the same thing back in oct. 2002. i used transcribe, how time flies.

Notable Quotes Supporting the"One Note Chord" Theory

[Christian Miller]

yeah. i just went to the freddiegreen.org site to check the date. i did the same thing back in oct. 2002. i used transcribe, how time flies.

Notable Quotes Supporting the"One Note Chord" Theory

I mean tbh as soon as I read the OG article on that site I couldn’t really unhear it… it seemed to stand out really clearly to me esp in moments like that with sparse instrumentation (which is often the case in Basie) but it’s good to hear it REALLY obviously, just to make sure you aren’t going mad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AllanAllen]

You can hear it on this recording as well (Barry Harris on piano lol.)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Another one to order I guess. Spotify is really letting me down this week.

[Mick-7]

And a little fiddling about with Moises later... a new video!

Oh my, you have committed a misdemeanor, sir! Freddie's playing is meant to be felt but barely heard.