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Having played with Peter in a lesson, there is nothing vague about Peter’s time feel.
If the music needs to have a clear pulse, he will do that. If he’s playing more interactively, he will access more complex rhythms but they are all locked in.
He is a breeze to play with, but as an educator can call you on your shit time, if required, without needing to say anything.
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03-26-2020 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Gabor
I find his comping to be quite ‘paddy’ like a string section. Or a synth.
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Originally Posted by gitman
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Originally Posted by christianm77
I can not stand to not associate masturbation vs real love making...
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Originally Posted by Gabor
He's not everyone's cup of tea, but please show some respect and humanity.
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This
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Originally Posted by takefive
It's basically stride piano on guitar right? Of course it's stylistically well suited to Gypsy jazz/swing contexts.
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Originally Posted by Tal_175
Also bird is still clearly indebted to swing era Sax players like Lester Young at this point. Notice how on the beat his phrasing is.
no pleasing some people lol
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Yea, and that was only 80 years ago.
What's cool...I is still sub and perform with bands like that, and when the tempos get up, that's where we go.... all back of the bus and extremely straight. I still dig it, it fun... I tend to do that rocket to the moon thing, keep the rhythm very straight or use the pre-fab tripled or 3 groupings patterns with longer straight rhythmic targets. And then have fun with the changes...
I mean... how many choruses do you take on Cherokee... lots. yea make the first few choruses beautiful while everyone catches they're breath. I mean that bridge... it's just hard to hold back.
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Originally Posted by Tal_175
Very important wrords you said about 'any interaction'.
Actually .. (with my also classical background and baroque continou copming) i find that the origins of jazz/rock/pop styles all include 'rhythm section' - which is reall about general pulse... in rock music they do not interact much too - they just keep the pulse
In baroque it is quite the oppsite in my opinion (whatever modern rock-influenced baroque players try to impose) -- it is all the time (and they react and interact all the time... it is very flexible time)...
And modern jazz is much in between imho... often that pulse is just meant and intended but not played straightly but it should be felt behind somehow
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Originally Posted by christianm77
True that bebop comping wasn't yet a thing but one guitarist who bridged that gap - Barney Kessel regarded him as 'the missing link' between swing and bop - is Oscar Moore. As great as they were, players like George Van Eps and Allan Reuss mostly split their duties between playing 'rhythm' and chordal solos when working in an ensemble context but Moore mixed that all up in his early trio work with Nat King Cole.
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Well that kind of goes to my point about rhythm guitar not being comping.
people who don’t listen to pre war jazz I don’t think realise how different - archaic - it sounds right up till the recording ban. Much more locked in. Particularly important is the different style of drumming.
So given we had progressive swing Sax players like Don Byas I’m tempted to say the great transforming genius of bebop was not Charlie Parker but Kenny Clarke whose switch to the new ride cymbal completely redefined the sound of the rhythm section and made the new comping style possible. It is also a hell of a lot easier to play bebop phrases with a more bop rhythm section. Again hear at how locked in Bird is in 1942 compared to after the war.
Anyway one box set that’s quite interesting to get a sense of how much jazz rhythm section playing evolved in just a few years is Coleman Hawkins the Bebop Years.Last edited by christianm77; 03-27-2020 at 05:48 AM.
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Originally Posted by PMB
I always bang on about this bit there is such a thing as bop rhythm guitar which I think of as a very different style to the 1940s thing.
Generally it happens when there’s no drums - such that trio format - and it shows Kenny Clarke’s influence in evolution from the train-like ‘boom chick’ of that 1940s Parker recording to the smooth automotive glide of post war swing. It’s one of my favourite styles.
tal in particular sounds like a trap set
Listening to Pisanos comping above I’m stuck by how it represents a slight loosening of the rhythm guitar approach but retains its groove.
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Originally Posted by Tal_175
Listen to the most elementary of jazz chords being played by Doug Raney when he is comping in the classic Chet Baker Trio recordings. Mostly the basic root 6 and root 5 chords you learn when you start out. He does not even leave the roots out.
Doug comps with these basic voicings all the way through his classic recordings with Chet Baker. NOTHING fancy and still highly effective. I do the same in my own Chet Baker Tribute Trio.
When I first listened to his comping I was amazed at the simplicity of his voicings. But it works great.
DB
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Originally Posted by GuyBoden
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Originally Posted by DB's Jazz Guitar Blog
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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DB - Thanks for posting the Chet Baker stuff. I'm an old dude, former trumpet player now working on guitar again for fun - the instrument I first played when I was 10 - before the elementary school band gave me a trumpet and ruined my life...
Having a Chet tribute trio, you are probably familiar with his 1957 instrumental version of Little Girl Blue accompanied by Dave Wheat on guitar. I had to bold and underline the "comp" part - for fun - because of this discussion on "comping" which can mean a lot of different things.
Dave Wheat's accompaniment of Chet is a work of art. For those not familiar, it's just a duo with Chet being Chet and Wheat laying down a sweet accompaniment. The thing about it, from a trumpet player's perspective is that Wheat really lays down the time like clockwork - sometimes with just one note to keep it moving forward - which makes it so much easier for Chet to be free in all of his phrasing and precise in his timing.
There is another instrumental version where Chet plays with a pianist and it seems to me the piano isn't locking in the time. He's playing too freely which makes it difficult for Chet to lock in. Chet seems to be waiting for the piano and I think it puts him off.
In any case, I thought some of you might like to hear Dave Wheat. I had to go to the album to look up who the guitar player was, then to the web to get his background. From Wikipedia -
David "Buck" Wheat (1922–1985) was an American folk and jazz musician, songwriter and recording artist. The Texas-born Wheat was a well-known guitarist and bass player with the big dance bands of the era, playing at the Chicago Playboy Jazz Festival 1959 in The Playboy Jazz All Stars and the Chet Baker Trio. He was also bassist with the Kingston Trio - the 4th person on stage.
Jeff
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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No love for Wes on this thread? He's my all time favorite string comping player.
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Originally Posted by Low Strung
DB
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"You should never hear the guitar by itself. It should be part of the drums so it sounds like the drummer is playing chords—like the snare is in A or the hi-hat in D minor"—?Freddie Green
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People keep talking about rhythm guitar haha
But I love that FG quote. Although he doesn’t half stick out when you know what to listen for.
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Man... I listened to the SDMPWC vid by DB with Rainey and Pedersen... sorry... time was not very good and if Pedersen hadn't been play... it would have been lousy. I generally love Raney's playing...
I agree with DB's approach, especially in that setting. I also play tons of no drums gigs, (well use to), but the mixing and somewhat non organized use of rhythmic attack patterns ....almost awkward, was hard to take.
Am I the only one hearing this?
2 new & excellent Jazz Comping Truefire...
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