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I'm working on "Four until late" by the great Robert Johnson. There are countless great Blues-Tunes and it's a welcome change for me to
leave the "Standards" behind for a while.
Would anybody here be interested to share their Comping skills and show us their ideas ?
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02-27-2020 04:07 AM
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Here's my first simple comping-idea for this great song.
Chords in pdf
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It's pretty cool that Robert also plays a II V in Love in Vain...I have not heard any Delta blues guys play a II V besides RJ.
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I've done some of it. For a straight 12-bar like Norfolk I usually just use the standard jazz blues format. Other things can get more complicated :-)
Last edited by ragman1; 03-13-2020 at 07:35 PM.
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Idea: we could agree on a blues song, give it a new set of jazzy chords and present the results
in this or any other thread of our choice.
My next project will be "Red House" and I'll try to turn it into a little swing number.
Let's see...
Here's a great version by John Lee Hooker...cool
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Do you think there might be a danger of spoiling the basic feeling of the song? The old blues classics were very straightforward and meant to be raw. Jazzing them can dilute the rawness if one's not careful.
There's only so many things one can do with, say, a 12-bar progression. I suppose one could simply complicate it and then put extensions and alterations on the chords. Or tritone some of them. That would make it 'jazzy'.
Have a look at this. Lots of different ideas!
Red House is very simple. Hooker does it in E. That's a bit 'open' for jazz so maybe F is better. Forces you to think differently. We could choose one that suits the melody and go from there.
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Here's a progression based on No. 14 above. I've altered a few chords but it's basically there. There are 2 versions:
1) Solo still based essentially over the 3-chord trick idea but extended a bit.
3) Solo is more like a jazz player would do it, outlining the harmonies as they appear.
Anyway, the point is: is it Red House any more? Or any other blues classic? But that's thing with jazz. Get a recording of a well-known jazz tune and start playing it somewhere in the middle... you wouldn't know what the hell they were doing. Could be anything :-)
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How about checking on some of Blind Boy Fuller's recordings? A lot of his tunes have chord progressions outside of the basic blues changes and may be easy to adept to jazz them up.
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A lot of good ideas. Thanks guys ! ...and a lot of questions.
My intention is to find jazz/blues chords as the background for a swinging guitar-solo (and fills) based
on the melody and/or singing.
Blind Boy Fuller sounds great. Here's Lonnie Johnson with Georgia White. He's a perfect example
of what I'm talking about.
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I remember hearing the guitar parts on tunes on the radio and didnt realize they were a "jazzed" blues progressions..
the old tune "high heel sneakers" by tommy tucker had some super tasty guitar licks over the funky feel of the tune..
the tune "honky tonk"..by bill doggett has classic guitar parts all over it..take that to the ultimate and listen to what Jimmy Smith does with it
taking raw acustic blues from the guys who wrote and played it and finding some jazz chords to put on top of them..to me it is a defeat of the soul of those works.
each note and some of the chords that were used are templates of what came after them..
we have to remember...there are "new" players that have no idea that there was "blues" before eric clapton
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Absolutely, that was my first reaction. Then I thought about it and I think there are probably some tunes that could take an altered chord or two, wouldn't hurt. I mean, that tune above could sound fine with a few changes on it, maybe even better. I've already done it in my head, I know it would sound fine :-)
Originally Posted by wolflen
.each note and some of the chords that were used are templates of what came after them.
Quite so.
:-)we have to remember...there are "new" players that have no idea that there was "blues" before eric clapton
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...take for instance Blind Willie McTell. He took all kinds of popular songs
and "changed" them into Blues ("Pal of mine" etc.). So what did he do with the "soul of these works" ?
I don't want to steal the chords of Lonnie Johnson. That song was just an example for good solo-work.
If I'd turn "Red House" into a Billie Holiday like Blues...would I stab the hearts of countless
purists ?
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Red House in A it is...(I'm already "on it")
Next one's of course your choise if you want
By the way, what do think about Leroy Carr and Scrapper Blackwell ?
Can' get enough of it...
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I like it. All good stuff :-)
OK, Red House in A. Let's do that first. Have you got recording facilities so you can post what you do?
By the way, how are you doing it? Solo fingerstyle or picking with a backing?
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We have to remember there are OLD players that have no idea there was blues before Robert Johnson's 1936/7 recordings. Those old country and delta players sounded like they invented the blues, but they were just isolated farmers banging out mostly self taught primitive stuff on guitar, while 20-30 years earlier, the blues was already a jazzy sophisticated genre being played from New Orleans to Memphis. Originally Posted by wolflen
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I remember in the late 50's early 60's it was" uncool" to like Bill Broonzy or Josh White because they were too jazzy. I loved them both
'
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Originally Posted by ragman1
My recording facilities are very limited. I'll work with the lyrics and chord-symbols (or pictures)
I scanned quite a lot out of my books, so I'm prepared. But let's see what I can come up with.
I use a pick.
Here, for something different:
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Over to you :-)
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Here my first draft for the Intro. Is that dribble clear to you ? Originally Posted by ragman1
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Yes, but I want to hear you play it!
I just use the computer's built-in microphone and Audacity, a free editing program. No problem at all. Make your own backing track and play over it.
Audacity (R) | Free, open source, cross-platform audio software for multi-track recording and editing.
Or turn on your cell phone and record yourself. Most guys here do that.
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03-02-2020, 07:53 AM #21joelf GuestI know what you mean, but, alas, we may be too far gone (with 'advanced' harmony) now. There's all kinds of opinions on styles: it's heretical not to keep them pure; you're doing them no favors not to open the door and let 'progress' in, etc., etc. Originally Posted by wolflen
I only know this: it's a hell of a discipline to say something in 2020 on those original 3 or 4 chords w/o 'cleverness' or 'sophistication'. (I put them in quotes b/c of the different slants and the debate). I think you ought to play the style---whatever style---keeping the basics as a touchstone. It's very hard to be 'pure'---and you can't stop the clock. But do show that you know and respect the tradition somehow in your approach.
In 1981 I got a call to work at Tramps with Big Joe Turner---a dean of Kansas City style----more 'sophisticated' than, say, delta blues. He came out of the '30s KC period with Basie; Moten; Pres----and a young Charlie Parker with his ears wide open. It was a slicker, smoother, more urban kind of sound---and blues.
I only knew the name, not his music. But I was honored to work with one of the originals (of rock, too), and took the gig very seriously. I immediately bought some of his recordings and studied.
Get to the one and only rehearsal. Doc Pomus, running the gig for an ailing Joe greets me in his salty voice:
'If you can play the blues you got a gig'.
We ran through a tune. The first words out of Mr. Turner's mouth:
'Good Guitar'
Then Dr. John came in to pay his respects. I was already on the stand and he sat down at the piano to play a slow blues. He didn't kick me off. I figured it was cool by then, I got this.
2nd night, the drummer, Honeyboy (I swear) comes up to me on break:
'Sounds real good, but you're not playing the same kind of blues he's singing'.
(to myself). 'Oh, s##t!'
I had been hangin' out with bebop and post bop guys like C. Sharpe and Tommy Turrentine---going to Barry Harris's sessions at the Jazz Forum. Guess I thought I was halfway slick. But Joe's gig was blues in C at two tempos: shuffle and slow. You didn't play anything more than a 9th chord---if that---and it was mostly major chords. Funny thing was, I thought I was a kid blues player 10 or so years before. We lived for that music back in Canarsie, ca '68-'71.
But I got 'corrupted'!
Long story short: by the end of the week I was gone, at the behest of Doc Pomus, who was giving me nasty looks the whole time anyway. I didn't feel too bad, b/c Joe dug me, and he was the leader---or so I thought.
But it was an important lesson, a real example of culture shock----and not being prepared, not knowing your environment. Firing me was right, b/c I was too far gone into the other thing, and couldn't turn back even though I wanted to, for the experience of playing with a giant and to please him, give him what he wanted.
I had 'jazzed up' the simple blues----and this time it didn't work...
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Success at last. Soundcloud works. Well, here it is. "Recorded" with a 25 Bucks cell phone, pushed through three different
"little helpers". It's only the first draft.
Intro: A9-Ab9-G9/11/9(you know what I mean)-Gb9
Chorus:
A6/A9 - Am7/Am6 - A6/A9 - A13/A7+5
Am7/Am6 - Am7/D13 - A6/Bm7 - C#m7 Cm7
Bm7/Bm6 - Dm7/9/7 E13 - A6 Cm7 - Bm7 E13b5b9 :||
Your turn...
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Wake me up for dinner...
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Originally Posted by crusoe
Success at last. Soundcloud works. Well, here it is. "Recorded" with a 25 Bucks cell phone, pushed through three different
"little helpers". It's only the first draft.
Intro: A9-Ab9-G9/11/9(you know what I mean)-Gb9
Chorus:
A6/A9 - Am7/Am6 - A6/A9 - A13/A7+5
Am7/Am6 - Am7/D13 - A6/Bm7 - C#m7 Cm7
Bm7/Bm6 - Dm7/9/7 E13 - A6 Cm7 - Bm7 E13b5b9 :||
Your turn...
Chords work just fine for me, nothing too fancy or too out of bounds reharm wise.
I don't think there was any intention in this video other than to "present" the chords, but now I'd say the next step is "feel" (which I'm guessing you're well into)
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crusoe -
Hey, lift off! Well done.
Did you see that post by joelf up there? It's a blues gig and he was playing bop stuff over it and got the chop.
Mr. Beaumont's one of the better players here and worth some attention (he's from Chicugo, whaddya expect?). As he says, your chords work fine, we haven't gone too far way from the blues sound, or perhaps the blues 'spirit' would be better.
Like I said before, that's a danger in this - unless it's the deliberate intention to do so - that the raw spirit of the blues feel is diluted. 13s, 9s, #9s, and so on, work just fine, even some ii-Vs. But one has to be careful that it doesn't begin to sound like a 12-bar ballad :-)
There's also the question of soloing. Given a strong bluesy background, banging out the blues sound is fairly easy. But when the chords get smoother, more subtle, any good soloist is going to have to echo that... and is it 'classic' blues any more?
Red House is a a straightforward 12-bar, nothing fancy about it. To be honest, the melody's nothing much to write about by itself. It's the lyrics that make it an independent song. So what do we do?
Here's a solo. I haven't tried to play the Red House melody and I've tried to keep it as raw as possible. Usually in jazz blues the Bm7 would sound very scalar but I haven't done that.
I've kept your introduction but after that played the chords myself to maintain the rhythm. But I have played them with shell voicings. I'm afraid mine sound less raw but can't help that.
See what you think anyway. I like your chords, they're good
Last edited by ragman1; 03-02-2020 at 03:10 PM.
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Blues clip from Saturday
Yesterday, 11:54 PM in From The Bandstand