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Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
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11-12-2019 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by christianm77
In case anyone is really wondering,
x11111112x
x13131314x
is the same as
x 11 11 11 12 x
x 13 13 13 14 x
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No I broke one.
Should I buy a new guitar?
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Originally Posted by pauln
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
Like the old economists' joke: Yeah, sure, it works in practice; the question is, will it work in theory?
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Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
John
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Wilson is doing the ‘borrowing’ thing to change the dim chords into something else, apparently.
For Heavens sake.
Everyone voice xx2233 on the instrument.
Now you can say I took the third of C maj 7 and added a 6 and then a 9 to form a C 6/9.
or
you can voice xx2213 ( C6 /E) and borrow the alto voice (D) from the F dim (of the C6 dim scale) to form C 6/9..same chord
only Barry Harris theory utilizes a GRAPHIC method for creating chords and dims can borrow from inversions too.
His theory immerses us into the C chromatic scale making every accidental available and the C6 dim, Cmin6 dim, G7dim and G7b5dim scales form the harmonic structure for progressions.
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Originally Posted by WILSON 1
I mean even when teaching physics we tell helpful lies, even if you think the maj-6 dim scale is a law of nature rather than the work of Man...
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Originally Posted by WILSON 1
Doesn't cut it.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
Calm down...
..the line break gave my statement incorrect emphasis. I meant to indicate that the 6 dim system gives you ALSO a graphic reference not that it is the be-all and end-all way to go.
christian77 stated that he likes to create chords first and worry about the label later and this harmonic system allows for a lot of that.
I am truly disappointed, though, to note the number of musician here who believe that a diminished chord must be played in order to reference this theory.
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Originally Posted by WILSON 1
Does the original example have a b6 in it?
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Wilson -
Truncating your post wasn't an attempt at misrepresentation, just a shortcut. I wouldn't call the usual way of doing music a theory. It's too carefully organised and worked out for that. But when someone comes up with their own theory then we're into a different world. And it's a limited world. It tends to attract followers, like a guru does, and all the rest of it. And there's no arguing with them.
I stated that the "source" was Ab 6 dim scale not that was the scale being played.
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Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
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Hey, let's not bother trying to teach someone in as clear way as we can, introducing theoretical concepts as they are necessary and providing as gradual as possible a difficulty curve in what is a very involved artform that can be completely intimidating to the newcomer, let's argue the philosophical toss about whether a harmonisation that doesn't include a b6 can be considered to be maj6-dim or not.
I'm going to be writing an essay about you lot at some point. The term 'problematic' will be used unironically. You have been warned! :-)
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Originally Posted by christianm77
It has a very basic implication for how we want to discuss for someone trying to understand these things. If the beginner needs to know that is built from a major scale , it doesn't help to make it more complicated for my own sake.
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Originally Posted by joe2758
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You guys are beating the dead horse. OP is gone already. Barrier to entry to jazz has been heroically defended one more time.
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Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
(Aha! But, but it's not a full major scale, actually is it? It's actually major scale -1. There is no Db in any of the voicings or in the melody line.)
Anyway, I think the major scale is culturally familiar and easy to sing, so is probably a safer bet. I think my post was a pretty decent fist at giving a relevant, clear answer. Maybe too much info.
Really I'd just rather the OP learned the shapes and could play them fluently. I explain 'it's all Ab major' and then we can have a go harmonising some other simple melodies. If they were in a room with me. Other info can be introduced as required.
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But hey, nobody is responsible for anybodies jazz education other than the student himself/herself. A successful student must understand the strengths and weaknesses of each educational resource. Internet forums has to be seen in this light.
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Yes the OP has been taught a brutal lesson which can only toughen him up for the obstacles ahead.
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Originally Posted by Tal_175
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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Then using the concept of related dominants you also get Eb7 and Db7. Then, including the biii dim you get four more dominants.
Strings comparable to TI Bensons without the...
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