How do you practice/learn how to comp?

[StraightOuttaCOMPton]

I spent months on end trying to learn jazz guitarists so I can jam with my friends. Each week I would have a goal for when I set up the first jam and I would never meet it. Here I am, 6 months later and making practically no progress. I find my biggest problem is comping. I try ever internet lesson I can find on comping and they all seem to skip of one thing that I can't quite grasp. They all teach you a bunch of ways to play your regular 7th chords and stuff and then teach you rhythms and then say, comp!

(Thanks if you are still with me, here is the question)

How do you learn/practice extensions and when do you use said extensions and what type of chord should you use (drop 2, 3 2 and 4, Barre etc.) How do you get into comping, as you can't just learn a hunch of extensions and comp! Please help! Thanks.

[darby]

I'm not very advanced at comping, but I've gotten a lot of mileage out of the "Mel Bay Rhythm Guitar Chord System." It's a really thin book, but it teaches you some useful chord voicings on strings 6, 4, 3, and 2 (I think they are called drop-3 voicings). Some of these voicings (the major 6th and minor 6th) are very powerful, because they have multiple uses. For example, depending on context, the major 6th shape demonstrated can also function as a sus 9th chord, a major 9th chord, or a minor 7th chord. Similarly, the minor 6th shape demonstrated can also function as a 9th chord, a minor 7b5 chord, and an alt. chord depending on context.

Chuck Wayne wrote a book called "Guitar Studies: Chords" that explores this same idea of 4 note chord voicings moved up the neck, but a lot more exhaustively, and with different string sets. I'd start with the "Rhythm Guitar Chord System," however, because those are "bread-and-butter" voicings that you absolutely have to know.

Jonathan

[docbop]

Just pick a tune and work on one tune what you learn on one tune can be used in many. Start simple with just 3rds and 7th's so you voice leading between them. Got that add the bass note could be root or inversion but keep the voice leading smooth. Keep going add a color tone. Now make up a simple chord melody version of the song that will get you to focus on the top voice of the chords. Now you have quite a few ways simple 3rds and 7ths to basic chord melody you a lot of sounds to mix and match to comp with. Now work on comping for when head is being played and comping behind a soloist, comping behind a singer. By the time you really work thru on song that much you'll have a big bag of tricks to use for all other songs.

Peter Bernstein and others say same thing work one a song till you get bored with what you're doing, that will get you to start experimenting to find new things to try. They were talking about soloing starting with playing just the melody, but the same process applies to comping and chords. Play till your boring yourself and then look for something to add. repeat and repeat, and repeat. When you feel you exhausted what you can do to that song, then start same process with another song. It will go faster with each song you take thru the process.

The process is the teacher and the enjoyment both.

[rpjazzguitar]

To get started with it, you need to know some chords, but not too many.

I'd suggest starting with four seventh chords. Let's use G7 as the example. 3x343x is the first one. From that grip, generate G6, Gm7, Gm6 and Gm7b5, G7b9. I'm going to assume you can figure out, for example, how to move the F on the fourth string down a fret to make a G6.

Then, going up the neck, you can use 7x576x and do the same thing to get the other chord types.

Then, 10 x 9 10 8 x.

Then, 13 x 12 12 12 x.

You need to be able to play them in all keys. Easiest way is to learn all the notes on the fretboard, find the root in the chord voicing and then move it up and down. That's some work, but there's no shortcut. if it seems daunting, just start with simple tunes like All of Me, and find the chords you need. Then, try a tune in a different key and keep going.

That's a usable basic chord vocabulary. You'll probably have to add a diminished voicing, like 4x343x.

Now, listen a bit to Freddie Green, who played a chord (or fragment) on every beat. Start with that. If the bassist is playing quarter notes, it will sound pretty good.

Then, when that gets boring, play on one and two-and. It will sound like the old Charleston rhythm. This works great.

That much will get you started.

[Tomcat]

If you play with bass (and even more if there's piano in the band) start comping with only "guide tones" - 3rds and 7ths of the chords - for 1-2 choruses then add 3rd note and finaly 4th note. That will build up the comping form. ALso start with very simple rhytms - just half and quarter notes in the begining and then build up more complex rhytms.

That's easier to play and sounds better in the band mix.

[ColinO]

I spent months on end trying to learn jazz guitarists so I can jam with my friends. Each week I would have a goal for when I set up the first jam and I would never meet it. Here I am, 6 months later and making practically no progress. I find my biggest problem is comping. I try ever internet lesson I can find on comping and they all seem to skip of one thing that I can't quite grasp. They all teach you a bunch of ways to play your regular 7th chords and stuff and then teach you rhythms and then say, comp!

(Thanks if you are still with me, here is the question)

How do you learn/practice extensions and when do you use said extensions and what type of chord should you use (drop 2, 3 2 and 4, Barre etc.) How do you get into comping, as you can't just learn a hunch of extensions and comp! Please help! Thanks.

Have you learned any tunes? If not, then do so. Learn the basic chords of the tune, then play along with a version that you like on Youtube or whatever recording that you have. Listen to the guy comping on that recording and learn the rhythm of the comping line from that. Don't try and get fancy with it - just the basic groove. Once you are comfortable with that there are play-alongs all over Youtube that are just bass and drums which are fun to comp along with. Or find a trio recording without a piano or guitar (there are lots of those) and comp along to that.

The only way you are going to be able to jam is if you can play tunes. But the bright side is that it doesn't have to be fancy in terms of extensions and alterations in order to be effective at a jam, it just has to swing so concentrate on that.

[rpjazzguitar]

As to which extensions to play:

One thing you can do is not play any of them. Play 3s and b7s. You can add the root if you're playing Freddie Green style and the bassist is playing simply enough. But, most of the time, you don't need the root.

Which type of voicing to play, drop-n, barre, etc -- will come as your ear develops. You pick the one that will sound smoothest in the particular situation. If you start with the chords I listed above, it will come.

Chord extensions are typically alterations of the 5th or 9th. The question is, who is supposed to play them? If the melody is one of the altered notes, then the chord symbol may reflect it, but you don't have to play it, the melodic instrument will. If the tune seems to want some moving harmony which is not reflected in the melody, then the chord instrument has to play it. Is there a pianist? If so, there's an excellent chance that the pianist will cover it -- and that the guitar needs to stay out of the way. No piano? Then you may need to play the alterations in the chords in the chart. Figure out one way to play them for one tune at a time. Not sure what to do? Stick with 3s and b7s and nobody is likely to complain.

Bottom line: you need some basic vocabulary and then just take one tune at a time and figure out some way to play thru the harmony that sounds good to you. After you've got a dozen or so tunes, call them at your jam.

After a while, you'll find that some new tune will include a lot of the stuff you've already practiced.

[jordanklemons]

I spent months on end trying to learn jazz guitarists so I can jam with my friends. Each week I would have a goal for when I set up the first jam and I would never meet it. Here I am, 6 months later and making practically no progress. I find my biggest problem is comping. I try ever internet lesson I can find on comping and they all seem to skip of one thing that I can't quite grasp. They all teach you a bunch of ways to play your regular 7th chords and stuff and then teach you rhythms and then say, comp!

(Thanks if you are still with me, here is the question)

How do you learn/practice extensions and when do you use said extensions and what type of chord should you use (drop 2, 3 2 and 4, Barre etc.) How do you get into comping, as you can't just learn a hunch of extensions and comp! Please help! Thanks.

Great questions. Comping can be very tough and deserves to have an enormous amount of our time and attention. I know it's more common for people to want to get right into running arpeggios and shredding through scales, but solid comping will open up so many doors that help so many other facets of our playing... and the only way to get those doors open is to push.

The hardest thing about talking about comping is the fact that there are different types of comping for different situations. Comping for a duo with a singer or horn player vs comping in a duo with another guitar vs comping in a duo with a bass player vs comping in a guitar trio vs comping with a full group containing a piano player... all of these require a different mentality and approach.

I generally recommend starting with the notion of comping for a duo... which means emulating the sound and feel of a rhythm section. 1-3-7/6 shell voicings are wonderful for this. If you totally new, start with super basic forms. Try and comp through a 2-5-1 in one key for a while. Don't worry about extensions. Just focus on staying with the form and making it groove. Feel and not getting lost are the most important things. If that level gets mastered, you can start adding in "tension" chords that help propel the harmony with some forward momentum. Secondary dominants, diminished chords, passing chords, chromatic movement, etc. This is just all about creating simple, harmonic and rhythmic movement. Tension and resolution. Work on doing this in a few keys. Then maybe step it up to the blues. Then maybe spend time doing this over tunes.

Then I'd probably stick with this same thing but try all of it again but without the root note. Just 3rds and 7ths/6ths. 5ths can potentially be thrown in as well... especially for dim and half dim chords... or any chord with an altered 5th.

I would also recommend experimenting with alternate routes through the harmonic form as well. Still keeping the voicings very simple. A lot can get done just with learning to reroute and create different movement. For instance, the 1st 2ish bars of a Bb blues (up to the 1st beat of measure 2 when we hit the Eb7 chord) could look like any of the following and more...

6x67xx
x656xx

6x67xx
x767xx
x656xx

6x67xx
8x88xx
9x89xx
12x12.13xx
11x11.12xx

6x67xx
x786xx
x868xx
x767xx
x656xx

Or lots of fancy subs and movement

10x10.10xx
9x89xx
8x88xx
x878xx
x868xx
6x67xx
x656xx

All of these (and many others) work for the 1st bar. The idea is to just learn a few VERY basic shapes (shell voicings) and then learn to be creative and move them around through different paths to land on key harmonic resolution points. Wouldn't want to play like this ALL the time, but a bit of this added in can really spice things up and get them moving and swinging.

Then I'd check out adding in extensions. I basically think of them in 2 ways. One is just to use the ideas mentioned above and add in 1 extension sometimes. Not every chord, but throw a 9 or an 11 on top. The goal is still to focus on movement, but just to fill out the chord a bit.

If we want to REALLY bring in lots of extensions and get very pianistic about it, there are a few ways to go about it. My personal approach is to focus on building a vocabulary of chords using triads (especially upper structure). So a 2 5 1 in the key of D, I might use a D major triad over the E-7, an F# major triad over the A7, and an A Major triad over the DMaj7 chord. It might give me something like these

xx5(232)
xx5(322)
xx4(220)
**notice the triads in parenthesis

xx5(775)
xx5(676)
xx4(655)

Or ideas that reduce these 4 note voicings down into smaller more playful chunks might yield

E-7
xxx11.8.10
xxx775
A7
xx868x
xx537x
DMaj7
xx425x
x745xx
x422xx

**These rootless chord voicings are worth working on over a looping pedal or play along so they can be heard in the proper context.

Again, there are other way to involve extensions (including the one I mentioned above - adding one note against a basic shell voicing, or the Monder stuff, or Reg's and others' thoughts on simply subbing in different chords for each other - like a CMaj7 instead of A-7 gives a rootless A-9, etc)... but this is what I've found to work the best for me. It's really helped me learn to use the extensions very melodically... whether I'm comping or improvising. Basing everything on triads allows me a lot of freedom to add and alter things and still keep it all very simple and fundamental. It may not look like it, but all of the voicings I used in that final example were derived by using the upper structure triads I mentioned, adding in one extra note, and then taking out one note per voicing to give a small, malleable shape. They're great for creating chord melody, comping, arranging horn sections, chord soloing, etc.

Anyways, that stuff can get more advanced. But starting with the basic shell voicings is a great starting point worth exploring deeply.

[nopedals]

Learn to play freddy green style rhythm changes in G and Bb, and make sure you are not using the same inversions for each key. If you have that in your pocket, it should be easy to play other tunes. Also, in case this was not clear, when folks tell you to play 3 and 7, you don't have to learn a new fingering; just don't fret the E string. So you are not learning something new; it is the same grip.

[christianm77]

Always keep a melody in the top voice of your chords. You don't need heaps of chords to do this BTW.

Practice comping through tunes....

[emanresu]

Just in case you haven't already thought about that.
Sitting with metronome and playing your chords over and over will take you only half way. Best is to find a buddy to play with. Second best is to play along with great recordings. There are a bunch of trios recorded with sax,bass, drums only. But even if there is a piano, it's ignorable with a little effort:P.. If practicing like that, you'll be surprised how simple a good comp may be. Its mostly about following the rhythm, not so much about crazy voicings.

Comping means supporting the soloist most of the time not showing some insane extension skills. Thats imho - I'm not too experienced myself.

Btw - putting a lot of time learning comping will greatly help soloing too. Hugely in fact.

[cosmic gumbo]

Like any other thing in jazz, you really have to listen to others comp, including pianists and try to duplicate/imitate what they are doing. If you can't do it by ear, you can't do it.

[coolvinny]

Might sound weird, but I actually think it works well to first learn how to comp for a bass solo before you learn how to comp for other instruments. Somehow, with all the space during a bass solo, I find it's easier to "pick up what the comper is putting down" from that setting and then you can apply the experience to 'normal' comping.

[matt.guitarteacher]

I spent months on end trying to learn jazz guitarists so I can jam with my friends. Each week I would have a goal for when I set up the first jam and I would never meet it. Here I am, 6 months later and making practically no progress. I find my biggest problem is comping. I try ever internet lesson I can find on comping and they all seem to skip of one thing that I can't quite grasp. They all teach you a bunch of ways to play your regular 7th chords and stuff and then teach you rhythms and then say, comp!

(Thanks if you are still with me, here is the question)

How do you learn/practice extensions and when do you use said extensions and what type of chord should you use (drop 2, 3 2 and 4, Barre etc.) How do you get into comping, as you can't just learn a hunch of extensions and comp! Please help! Thanks.

The melodic and rhythmic aspects of comping are difficult to get from random voicings out of books or Internet. Copying other players comping is the shortcut.

The following has it for you in recorded and book book form. Also, the tunes themselves are ones everyone should and great for beginners. It's not so much a "method". More like: "Play this ."

It helps to understand what you're doing somewhat - the theory etc - especially in things like jazz, but that always kind of overshadows the basic fact that rote learning is almost always the best entry point.

The "How" always makes a little more sense when you already have some "what " under your fingers. jazzbooks.com: Product Details also just saw this.
more beginner version. never looked at it, but it has good reviews : jazzbooks.com: Product Details

[emanresu]

For OP, if you have already been doing it for months, just post a few short recordings of your comping example. Because otherwise people just post some generic suggestions without knowing what you actually are doing there.

[srs]

The melodic and rhythmic aspects of comping are difficult to get from random voicings out of books or Internet. Copying other players comping is the shortcut.

The following has it for you in recorded and book book form. Also, the tunes themselves are ones everyone should and great for beginners. It's not so much a "method". More like: "Play this ."

Did you intend to place a link or sight a resource here?

[matt.guitarteacher]

Did you intend to place a link or sight a resource here?

Sorry. Tapatalk eats my links lately. jazzbooks.com: Product Details

Just saw this as well. Never checked it out. more beginner version: jazzbooks.com: Product Details

[Jazzstdnt]

Great responses above. I would summarize

1. Learn 2-3-4-5 note chords and voice leading (harmony)
2. Learn four-to-the-bar and Charleston (rhythm)
3. Learn to play less/lay out more/make short on and off-beat punctuations (rhythm)

4. Consider ensemble context (duo, trio, quartet, sextet, band etc...) when applying both harmony and rhythm. A general rule of thumb is that the larger the ensemble the less you should do - with harmony, rhythm, or both. (But that's only a generalization). Make special note of guitar comping approaches when there is a pianist in the group. Most guitarists make a special effort to stay out of the pianists way, so to speak.

5. Listen to the greats comp on both guitar and piano, especially the guitar. Imitate them. Learn and copy what they do, just as we copy solos.

6. Finally, get a few good books or online courses on the topic, but be choosy. Almost all of the answers are found in real music. In other words, there is advice and theory, and then there is applied theory - the music that the masters made/make.

A parting shot on the last two points about listening to great guitarists. You should listen to the top stars, but keep in mind that most of them are famous because of their great soloing, not their great comping. In many cases they either solo or lay out, or very nearly so. So also seek out great music that includes a guitarist in the band whose primary role is "rhythm guitarist".

[emanresu]

A parting shot on the last two points about listening to great guitarists. You should listen to the top stars, but keep in mind that most of them are famous because of their great soloing, not their great comping. In many cases they either solo or lay out, or very nearly so. So also seek out great music that includes a guitarist in the band whose primary role is "rhythm guitarist".

Thanks for that. I always keep forgetting this

[christianm77]

At the moment I am obsessed with Wynton Kelly's comping on Soul Station.

Just sayin' :-)

[mr. beaumont]

The world would be a better place if we all got obsessed with soul station.

[jordanklemons]

One of my favorite albums... in terms of just an insanely swingin ensemble, it doesn't get much better for me.

[jordanklemons]

ba doo BOP. boo DOP. baaaaa DOOP. da boo doo DOP. baaaaa DOOP. ba doop. boo doo BOP.

uuuuuuugh.... that phrasing literally sticks in my head all day and keeps me walking around on my toes dancing.

[mr. beaumont]

ba doo BOP. boo DOP. baaaaa DOOP. da boo doo DOP. baaaaa DOOP. ba doop. boo doo BOP.

uuuuuuugh.... that phrasing literally sticks in my head all day and keeps me walking around on my toes dancing.

Lol, I "remembered" it as soon as I saw it spelled out!

[jordanklemons]

Lol, I "remembered" it as soon as I saw it spelled out!

Right??? That's when you know you're making MUSIC! When even spelled out you can pick up on the tune.

I think this deserves an entire thread. I'm going to go start it in "The Songs" section.