susb9 chords

[sjeng]

hallo guitar players,
for years they told me to improvise on the 3th chord of a modal major harmony with the third mode of the major scale on the min.7 chord.
After reading mark levin's book on jazz theory he mentions not to use the min7th chord but instead susb9 chord, but i can't find any fingerings for this chord on the guitar.

can anyone tell me more about this chord and its fingerings ?

Hubert du chateau

[JohnW400]

One way to figure out some voicings for this chord is to think of it as a minor 7 b5 with it's 4th in the bass (Dmi7b5/G)

This will give you the sus4 b9 ( G, D Ab C F) 3 5 6 5 6 x or (3 x 0 1 1 1) or this one, G F C D Ab . 3 x 3 5 3 4.

[sjeng]

Thanks John for the quick reply on the susb9 chord.

[mikeemblem]

You could try this:

Fret:
5 (A - root)
7 (F# - 6th)
7 (D - sus4)
8 (Bb - b9)
x
x

or try Esusb9 on the middle strings like:

x
5 (E root)
6 (C# 6th)
7 (A 4th)
8 (F b9)
x

[pingu]

hallo guitar players,
for years they told me to improvise on the 3th chord of a modal major harmony with the third mode of the major scale on the min.7 chord.
After reading mark levin's book on jazz theory he mentions not to use the min7th chord but instead susb9 chord, but i can't find any fingerings for this chord on the guitar.

can anyone tell me more about this chord and its fingerings ?

Hubert du chateau

burrump
just getting into this sound now
any more wisdom on this stuff guys ?
thanks in advance

[randalljazz]

You could try this:

Fret:
5 (A - root)
7 (F# - 6th)
7 (D - sus4)
8 (Bb - b9)
x
x

or try Esusb9 on the middle strings like:

x
5 (E root)
6 (C# 6th)
7 (A 4th)
8 (F b9)
x

these are from the 'other' derivation of the b9sus--as the second mode of the melodic minor...and then following the assumption that any chord from a particular mm scale can function for any other. these are third mode chords, maj7#5, lydian augmented, of the same underlying mm which gives the second mode b9sus.

now we're having fun!

[GuyBoden]

these are from the 'other' derivation of the b9sus--as the second mode of the melodic minor...and then following the assumption that any chord from a particular mm scale can function for any other. these are third mode chords, maj7#5, lydian augmented, of the same underlying mm which gives the second mode b9sus.

now we're having fun!

Yes, this is exactly how I theoretically think about susb9, the second mode of the mm scale and therefore any mode from the mm parent scale. Obviously and most importantly the note choices will depend on the musical situation and where you feel the music wants to go.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

I simplify Dm7b5/G to Fm/G, for example:

G7sus4b9: 3x311x
CMaj7: x3200x

Here's a cool open voicing someone gave me:

E7sus4b9: 087700, arp this and play the bass string as a harmonic!

[GaryCorby]

Surely a susb9 must be 1-4-5-b7-b9?

I'm new to jazz and I don't know that book, but I'm reasonably sure I've got a grip on chord names. If the sixth is in there as well because it's being played as a melodic minor, then why is it not called a sus13b9?

[jckoto3]

Surely a susb9 must be 1-4-5-b7-b9?

In theory perhaps, but often, particularly with the limitations of the guitar, chord voicings are reduced to the characteristic tones since they can imply a more sophisticated sound while still leaving space for a soloist, or sometimes just being easier to play. In this case the characteristic tones would be the 4 and b9, and maybe some combination of any or none of the others.

I'm new to jazz and I don't know that book, but I'm reasonably sure I've got a grip on chord names. If the sixth is in there as well because it's being played as a melodic minor, then why is it not called a sus13b9?

It may very well be called just that if the "13" part is considered essential by the person writing the chart.

[GaryCorby]

Hi, I get that, thanks for the reply.

I need to remember that the chords written on a jazz chart aren't so much a statement of fact as a mild suggestion!

[NGUguitar]

Hi guys, just enjoying the conversation, here are some root voicing solutions I use for susb9:
(There are lots of good rootless voicings too, but I use these for solo/chord melody comping)

D7susb9

A-string root:

8
8
8
7
5
X

and E-string root:

8
8
8
10
x
10

similar to BDLH above but with the b7th on top. Then BDLH's puts the sus4 on top, and this one:

x
x
8
10
10
10

puts the b9 on top

the A-string voicing above also puts the b7 on top,

10
13
12
13
x
x

puts the root on top and then:

10
13
12
13
x
10

(barre with 1st) is the same root-on-top voicing with the root on the bottom as well

Hope those make sense!

Peace to you and yours.

[NGUguitar]

Also, keep in mind that all of your m7b5 shapes, when rooted on the 5th of the stated 7susb9 will also work as rootless voicings. The root of the m7b5 is the 5th of the susb9, the b5 of the m7b5 is the b9 of the susb9, the b7 of the m7b5 is the sus4 of the susb9, and the m3 of the m7b5 is the b7 of the susb9 chord. Example:

E7susb9:

0
3
2
3
2
0

Hidden in the middle of that E7susb9 is a Bm7b5 or "B half-diminished" chord. By extension, all m7b5s rooted on the 5th of the susb9 will be great rootless substitutes.

[srlank]

Hey NGUguitar,

Nice voicings, thx! I'll have to check out the rest of this thread. I hadn't noticed it before you posted.
I use the following often. Since it has 'A' in the bass however, it might be more correct to label it as root 'A.' I have no idea. I like to follow it by a chord with an 'Ab' bass......tritone sub.

x-------Dsusb9
4
7
5
x
5

x-------Ab7susb9
7
7
7
x
4

Forgive me if I mislabeled. They're nice voicings though I think.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Hey NGUguitar,

Nice voicings, thx! I'll have to check out the rest of this thread. I hadn't noticed it before you posted.
I use the following often. Since it has 'A' in the bass however, it might be more correct to label it as root 'A.' I have no idea. I like to follow it by a chord with an 'Ab' bass......tritone sub.

x-------Dsusb9
4
7
5
x
5

x-------Ab7susb9
7
7
7
x
4

Forgive me if I mislabeled. They're nice voicings though I think.

Nice! I like the b9 interval from the bass in the Ab chord (No sus4 in the Ab -- that would be a Db). I would also do it more step-wise:

5x574x 4x453x (Dsusb9 Ab7b5)

[srlank]

Cool. Thx for the tips BDLH!