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Originally Posted by Phil in London
Originally Posted by Phil in London
Originally Posted by Phil in London
Originally Posted by Phil in London
IOW - as with all music theory - this is not about rules that have to be followed, but common practices. No one is saying you can't use 7#11s as V7s. It's just that, as a rule, it tends not to be done,.
Why that might be is an interesting question, but a different issue.
Originally Posted by Phil in London
The voice-leading, of course, is what it all comes down to. There's chromaticism and half-step voice-leading involved in all the choices, and identifying a particular chord (and its roman numeral) might just come down to what bass note we use. That's the only essential difference between C7#11 and F#7alt, after all. Both lead (conventionally) to Bm or B, in the same way. C7#11 just gives us a half-step bass move.
The mix of chord tones and chromatics we choose, to enhance the cadence, is what gives rise to the chord identity, rather than vice versa. And the fewer notes in the chord, the more options for other scale notes and therefore chord/scale choices.
Originally Posted by Phil in London
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04-29-2014 09:18 AM
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I dont know if this has been answered, but the "+" sign as very specific in what tone gets altered. Thats an augmented sign, so no, both chords are not the same.
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Huh?
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So Augmented 5th and #5 are not the same?
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Good lord, the advice dispenced gere sometimes...
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They are the same. I read a post that said it should be read as an altered chord. An altered chord could mean flat or sharp. The C+7#9 is a sharp 5th, not a flat 5.
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Ohhhhjjhjjhhhh shhhttttttttt. I noticed the #5 in the second chord. Brain fart. Sorry, go back to what everyone was doing
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Its cool. I typed "gere." Ive needed several saissons to keep up with this blackhawks game...
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Lol! It's all good.
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Originally Posted by eh6794
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Right!
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Blackhawks are toast booyeah
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Originally Posted by Phil in London
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Originally Posted by fumblefingers
Technically you're quite right that 9#11 is diatonic to melodic minor as a IV. I've personally never seen one used in that way. (That's mainly because minor key chords are not generally harmonised from melodic minor, other than the tonic.)
However, 7#11s can occur as IV chords in major keys. They make a bluesy alternative to the usual maj7#11. I personally like to use one on the IV in Moon River.
Phil in London is also quite right that in theory a 7#11 chord could be used as a V chord (dominant function). I can see no reason why not, and plenty of reason why it ought to work. The question, perhaps, is it ever done in practice? And if so, in what contexts?
I'm pretty sure I have seen lyd dom chords used as V7s; but quite rarely. The question then is: why so rarely (if theory suggests it's OK)?
So it becomes an issue of how seriously one takes "common practice". Do we want to be bound by common practice (in order to sound conventionally "correct", follow the accepted traditions of the masters, recognisable "jazz" idioms), or do we want to experiment? Move beyond?
As a choice, that might seem like a no-brainer, but it's a useful perspective, IMO.Last edited by JonR; 06-03-2014 at 08:08 AM.
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